Do you feel ASM #96-98 are underappreciated for their historical significance?

[mosconi]

Was wondering what other boardies felt about the importance and historical significance of this classic Lee/Romita/Kane drug story arc beginning with Spidey #96. From my understanding, it was the first ever Marvel super-hero issue to depict drug abuse. They also preceded the famous Neal Adams GL drug stories. These non-approved Code issues were the impetus for the revision of the CCA which then allowed the introduction of well-known titles such as Tomb of Dracula, Ghost Rider, Monster of Frankenstein, Werewolf by Night, and too many more to list.

Do you feel this story arc and Stan Lee's refusal to submit to the Code was important to the history of Marvel Comics? Btw, they were some really cool covers:

 

 

 

[rodan57]

If you want a contemporary perspective -- I bought these off of the newsstand and I must admit I never even noticed the missing code stamps. Drugs as a topic of media discussions were not uncommon in 1971 ( I was a faithful Rolling Stone reader ) and the topic did not shock.

 

Of course as a teenager, I was probably pretty much oblivious to everything except perhaps girls and cars.

 

p.s.

Great looking copies of these books.

[RockMyAmadeus]

No, because those days are nearly 50 years behind us. Sure, they were the impetus for change to the CCA, but in modern terms, there's nothing really that special about them, and most people don't even notice that they're not Code approved until it's pointed out to them. We have a couple of generations since who were born into the "War on Drugs", and they're slowly but surely making their way into legality, so the story is increasingly viewed as rather quaint and dated.

 

The Code's stance on those issues was ridiculous and knee-jerk; they were ANTI-drug stories, yet they refused to approve them.

 

As individual issues, I think they'd have a lot more oomph if that red side banner wasn't on issue #96, or they had kept that cover layout for all three. #97 and #98 are classic, dynamic, fantastic covers...#96, not so much, and it really jars the eye appeal of those three when viewed as a whole.

 

 

[Quicksilver Signs]

For sure significant to the Spider-Man collector and the loosening of the code as well. I don't think they should be valued more than they are, slight bump. Also find it odd the Goblin didn't appear in ASM for over 50 issues. Maybe Stan and Romita didn't consider him Spidey's number one like I did.

 

Spec Spider-Man 2 seemed more like an acid trip than ASM 96-98! That one's under valued to me, magazines get no respect

[ChrisInBaltimore]

When I went to University of WY, they had a pop culture museum. Stan Lee donated a bunch of his personal paperwork from the time period of the drug issues.

 

http://rmoa.unm.edu/docviewer.php?docId=wyu-ah08302.xml

 

I went there when they had just received the collection and was one of the first people to go through the collection. It was a mess, but he had a ton of paperwork from the drug issues. It was really interesting and the impact was pretty big. Lee travelled the country giving speeches and discussing it on college campuses. He also had a few legal letters about it.

 

It was really interesting.

 

And the scope of what Lee saved was incredible. There was thousands of fan letters that he saved, as well as drafts of response letters to many of them. We might bash on Lee a big, but his commitment to fans and the industry is without compare.

[Buzzetta]

As a Spider-man fan I love them. It was a decent storyline and almost in the vibe of the gritty NY Daredevil stuff since it went to drug issues. It is also the bridge to ASM 121 and 122. Romita gets to draw the goblin again so that was a plus even if it is only on the cover. The lack of the comics code is kind of cool but there are other reasons to like this storyline.

 

 

 

[RockMyAmadeus]

For sure significant to the Spider-Man collector and the loosening of the code as well. I don't think they should be valued more than they are, slight bump. Also find it odd the Goblin didn't appear in ASM for over 50 issues. Maybe Stan and Romita didn't consider him Spidey's number one like I did.

 

Spec Spider-Man 2 seemed more like an acid trip than ASM 96-98! That one's under valued to me, magazines get no respect

 

GG appeared in several issues between #40 and #96. He just didn't appear on the cover.

 

He's in #47, 61, 62, 63, 65, 66, and 94.

[Ken Aldred]

A good story with some nice Kane / Romita art in issue 96, but hardly significant or controversial from a present-day perspective.

 

Nothing to get too excited about.

 

[Bill C]

For sure significant to the Spider-Man collector and the loosening of the code as well. I don't think they should be valued more than they are, slight bump. Also find it odd the Goblin didn't appear in ASM for over 50 issues. Maybe Stan and Romita didn't consider him Spidey's number one like I did.

 

Spec Spider-Man 2 seemed more like an acid trip than ASM 96-98! That one's under valued to me, magazines get no respect

 

GG appeared in several issues between #40 and #96. He just didn't appear on the cover.

 

He's in #47, 61, 62, 63, 65, 66, and 94.

 

thanks for that list!

 

i think the spider-man magazine #2 also came out during that run

[mosconi]

Of course, in todays terms these stories are tame in comparison. But for a young reader in 1971, I don't think it was a common occurrence to see a Marvel character like Harry Osborn popping pills, having a psychedelic trip, overdosing, and nearly dying at the hospital. That was groundbreaking stuff for 1971 Marvel Comics! And it took some balls for Lee to ignore the Code at that time. Many Marvel characters wouldn't have been created in the early 70's if not for the CCA revision.

[shadroch]

Standing up to the Code was a huge deal at the time. One that easily could have back-fired.

Many distributors and chains had pledged to not sell comics that weren't code approved not all that long before. Lee risked losing a significant number of outlets.

[Quicksilver Signs]

For sure significant to the Spider-Man collector and the loosening of the code as well. I don't think they should be valued more than they are, slight bump. Also find it odd the Goblin didn't appear in ASM for over 50 issues. Maybe Stan and Romita didn't consider him Spidey's number one like I did.

 

Spec Spider-Man 2 seemed more like an acid trip than ASM 96-98! That one's under valued to me, magazines get no respect

 

GG appeared in several issues between #40 and #96. He just didn't appear on the cover.

 

He's in #47, 61, 62, 63, 65, 66, and 94.

 

No GG just Norman Osborne in those issues for 61-66, just flashbacks of GG and a lead in to Spec Spidey 2 Now In Full Color! 94 is flashback as well. Didn't check my 47 but no real GG appearance methinks

[Bill C]

IIRC 47 was a flashback that altered the story from 34 to include Gobby

[Buzzetta]

There are no GG / Spider-man encounters from 40 until 96-98. Norman Osborn is in those issues and he slowly regains his memory over the course of time. However, ASM 96-98 is the return of the GG. In issue 66 Norman is dressed as the GG in his factory but still has not retained his memory.

 

It seems as if they were doing a slow build up to another epic SM/GG fight but then decided to bring it about when the opportunity came about to do the drug issues.

 

I just pulled up those issues to check.

[Bill C]

There are no GG / Spider-man encounters from 40 until 96-98. Norman Osborn is in those issues and he slowly regains his memory over the course of time. However, ASM 96-98 is the return of the GG. In issue 66 Norman is dressed as the GG in his factory but still has not retained his memory.

 

It seems as if they were doing a slow build up to another epic SM/GG fight but then decided to bring it about when the opportunity came about to do the drug issues.

 

I just pulled up those issues to check.

 

I believe the story from asm 66 leads into the second spidey mag (could be wrong). at the end of that one gobby loses his memory again iirc, keeping the status quo

[mosconi]

Harry the pill popper

[RockMyAmadeus]

For sure significant to the Spider-Man collector and the loosening of the code as well. I don't think they should be valued more than they are, slight bump. Also find it odd the Goblin didn't appear in ASM for over 50 issues. Maybe Stan and Romita didn't consider him Spidey's number one like I did.

 

Spec Spider-Man 2 seemed more like an acid trip than ASM 96-98! That one's under valued to me, magazines get no respect

 

GG appeared in several issues between #40 and #96. He just didn't appear on the cover.

 

He's in #47, 61, 62, 63, 65, 66, and 94.

 

No GG just Norman Osborne in those issues for 61-66, just flashbacks of GG and a lead in to Spec Spidey 2 Now In Full Color! 94 is flashback as well. Didn't check my 47 but no real GG appearance methinks

 

"Flashbacks" are still appearances. And yes, Gobby appears in #47.

 

[Quicksilver Signs]

There are no GG / Spider-man encounters from 40 until 96-98. Norman Osborn is in those issues and he slowly regains his memory over the course of time. However, ASM 96-98 is the return of the GG. In issue 66 Norman is dressed as the GG in his factory but still has not retained his memory.

 

It seems as if they were doing a slow build up to another epic SM/GG fight but then decided to bring it about when the opportunity came about to do the drug issues.

 

I just pulled up those issues to check.

 

I believe the story from asm 66 leads into the second spidey mag (could be wrong). at the end of that one gobby loses his memory again iirc, keeping the status quo

 

Correct. There's an ad for Spec Spidey 2 at the en o the book.

[RockMyAmadeus]

Of course, in todays terms these stories are tame in comparison. But for a young reader in 1971, I don't think it was a common occurrence to see a Marvel character like Harry Osborn popping pills, having a psychedelic trip, overdosing, and nearly dying at the hospital. That was groundbreaking stuff for 1971 Marvel Comics! And it took some balls for Lee to ignore the Code at that time. Many Marvel characters wouldn't have been created in the early 70's if not for the CCA revision.

 

It WAS a very big deal...at the time.

 

But, as these things go, it's been muted with time, and the issues that made them controversial no longer exist.

 

In that respect...and in keeping with the title of the thread...the books aren't underappreciated.

[Quicksilver Signs]

For sure significant to the Spider-Man collector and the loosening of the code as well. I don't think they should be valued more than they are, slight bump. Also find it odd the Goblin didn't appear in ASM for over 50 issues. Maybe Stan and Romita didn't consider him Spidey's number one like I did.

 

Spec Spider-Man 2 seemed more like an acid trip than ASM 96-98! That one's under valued to me, magazines get no respect

 

GG appeared in several issues between #40 and #96. He just didn't appear on the cover.

 

He's in #47, 61, 62, 63, 65, 66, and 94.

 

No GG just Norman Osborne in those issues for 61-66, just flashbacks of GG and a lead in to Spec Spidey 2 Now In Full Color! 94 is flashback as well. Didn't check my 47 but no real GG appearance methinks

 

"Flashbacks" are still appearances. And yes, Gobby appears in #47.

 

Would you consider every time Kurt Connors appears as a Lizard appearance? I wouldn't, its the same idea as Osborne, a Jekyll and Hyde. Connors and Osborne are secondary characters as well as villains.