Opinions On Restoration

[PovertyRow]

/i click on the dummy link below your posting area...or just use [ i ] and [ / i ] without the spaces in between

 

Thanks - I am trying this now. And BTW - your reference to "dummy" links is not unnocticed! LOLOLOLOLOL

 

[aardvark88]

Logically that should be true. Comics that have JUST been cleaned & pressed shouldn't bare the stigma of purple label. However, once restored bks are slabbed, it doesn't seem to matter much to the bidder if slight resto vs moderate resto. Bids are always 1/2 to 75% off mkt value from 10 yrs ago pre-cgc. Once bks are slabbed, u can't flip through them at a big auction unless u crack the slab. No point any longer to compare slight resto vs heavy resto w/ an educated eye to help determine the true value of a bk w/ 1 or 2 drops of color instead of lumping them all together under 1 big pile.

[PovertyRow]

Actually, you don't need to answer, because according to you, both of the restored books will sell for the same amount.

 

Is all I am trying to say.

 

[blowout]

"Actually, you don't need to answer, because according to you, both of the restored books will sell for the same amount. "

 

.............no, i'm not saying that at all, there is a small portion of collectors who buy restored books and make distinctions between them..................

 

.........all i am saying is that i, and almost every collector i know will not buy restored books no matter what the degree of restoration is..................

[PovertyRow]

.........all i am saying is that i, and almost every collector i know will not buy restored books no matter what the degree of restoration is..................

 

LOVE the dummy links - I embeded the exact same commands and no go - but pasting the text into the dummy link box works. Anyway, I am really not talking about BUYING. God, I despise the concept that comics are a commodity and LOVE the fact that the areas of my genuine interest seem to, at least for the nonce, be the most "undervalued".

[PovertyRow]

No point any longer to compare slight resto vs heavy resto w/ an educated eye to help determine the true value of a bk w/ 1 or 2 drops of color instead of lumping them all together under 1 big pile.

 

My gosh! Mabe I AM i the right place?

[PovertyRow]

the market value is determined by the collectors buying the books

 

Regrettably (I forgot how to spell unfortunately) the market seems to be increasingly determined by investors as opposed to collectors. And I say to those investors, leave my pre-code horror alone! And they will because spandex does not factor in. (yes, that was a jest).

[Darthdiesel]

Yes, revel in the glory of your oddball fetishes...

and a point of contention...

 

Actually, you don't need to answer, because according to you, both of the restored books will sell for the same amount.

 

In my scenario, both restored books wouldn't sell at all! BWAHAHHA!

[PovertyRow]

Errr - Darth - you addressed that to me and not the one who posted that. Attention span giving way?

[Darthdiesel]

KILLING two loony birds with one stone

[PovertyRow]

KILLING two loony birds with one stone

 

Two ricochetes?

[drbanner]

Processes like inpainting, leaf forming and tear seals are radical enough to earn the CGC restoration label. But spine roll removal, pressing and dry cleaning? Nah. Thoughts?

 

There is a distinction in your examples above between "preservation" techniques, and "restoration" techniques, but unfortunately, there is no difference in the CGC-labeling. So, all purple labels are grouped together and suffer the same price resistance, but the smart collectors know that there's a big difference between a "restored" book with pieces replaced and color touched, and a "preserved" book.

 

As a collector of Gold, Silver, and Bronze Age, I can tell you under no uncertain terms that restoration is not looked down upon in the Golden Age market nearly as much as it is on Silver/Bronze/Modern. Of course Darth is going to abhor restoration (as he should), he deals in brand-spanking new books! Same for CI and his Bronze Age Marvels...these books should not be touched and are plentiful in unrestored grade.

 

Finally, who do you think is buying restored books at rock-bottom prices - collectors, not investors! Much of the argument above is how restored books are not a good investment and that might be true, but when a Golden Age collector has a choice of a restored book that they can afford and no book (either because one is not available, or because a decent copy is prohibitively expensive), the collector pulls the trigger, while the comic investor walks away...

[Larryw7]

My slightly heterodox views on restoration:

 

 

I would prefer a book restored from a rag to a Fine appearance to be in my collection, especially if the book was worked on by Susan Ciccone or one of the other excellent conservators in the hobby.

I wouldn't want a book upgraded from Very Good or higher to appear NM. The book should have stayed in it's original state and color touching is nothing more than desecration.

I agree with Povertyrow on spine roll removal, cleaning, etc. It should be disclosed by the person selling the book that this has been done, but it's not mutilation or desecration at all.

 

My biggest beef with restoration is the dishonest dealers and collectors who pass off restored comics as unrestored(it's happened to me; Fantazia, anyone?). But if I know about the restoration and it's a book I want, I can live with it.

If I can get a nice looking copy of ALL STAR #3 for three grand instead of ten, than I'm happy. The depressed market on restored books is perfect for guys like me who want a bottle of Dom Perignon but can only afford a case of Bass Ale!

[scottish]

It's like those sellers who list comics with the Marvel Value Stamp clipped, as "not affecting the story". Hey buddy, if I was spending $2K on a story, I'd grab a reprint for $2 instead. If I really wanted a resto book, I'd buy a F/VF and have the work done myself.

 

I'll be one of these sellers CI. Not very soon mind you, but sometime in the future you'll see that description in an auction of mine.

[OldGuy]

"if I am seeming to be a real jerk (I edited my original word) because I have opinions which differ - I will reluctantly leave this forum"

 

Don't leave because CI doesn’t like you, he doesn’t like anyone.

[PovertyRow]

My biggest beef with restoration is the dishonest dealers and collectors who pass off restored comics as unrestored(it's happened to me; Fantazia, anyone?). But if I know about the restoration and it's a book I want, I can live with it.

 

Those and also the dealers who are just too dumb to recognize that a book is restored. I've had some fun exchanges with a dealer saying, about a black marker touchup on the cover that bled through, "That? That's just an ink overrun! You see that sometime." I swear he was serious.

 

Another dealer had a book in which the registration was so off that the colors were all several dots out of register. This, I was told, was a "3-D cover!".

[murph0]

Personally I can't stand restoration on a book..if I find any with it I'd sell them instantly as I don't want any. Sort of like wanting a 67 Mustang, buying one, and then finding out all the parts are from a 92 Fiero.

 

Brian

[PovertyRow]

There is a distinction in your examples above between "preservation" techniques, and "restoration" techniques, but unfortunately, there is no difference in the CGC-labeling. So, all purple labels are grouped together and suffer the same price resistance, but the smart collectors know that there's a big difference between a "restored" book with pieces replaced and color touched, and a "preserved" book.

 

That is exactly one of my points. That there should be a distinction between cleaning and piece replacement. I am NOT saying by a long shot that the cleaned/pressed type books should be accepted by everyone as if they had nothing done to them. What I am saying is that there should be a distinction made instead of glomming all into one label. For example, I do not like writing on the cover (except arrival date type writing) and would accept a VG w/o writing that has a few more tears over a less torn VG with writing. But others would go for the tighter book.

 

Buyers will still decide for themselves what they like and do not like, as it should be.

[PovertyRow]

A very weird offset of restoration is UNrestoration, where restoration is removed. Some believe that you can do something as radical as scrape out a small piece of color touch or cut out a small area that has bled through and the book is now unrestored since the color touch or color touch with bleedthrough is no longer there. And the book has simply suffered a tear or a scrape.

 

Anyone experienced this phenomena? It makes my mind boggle.

[murph0]

A lot of the restoration "artists" (?) offer a restoration removal service...but my question is if your removing restoration aren't you restoring the book from the restoration thus making it restoration either way..?

 

Brian