Question on a trimmed cover?

[jajsage]

Never had one come back not in a Universal Grade. So when my grades displayed on the CGC website I had no idea what an Apparent Grade was. The grader notes say that the entire top cover is trimmed. I looked up the definition of apparent grade and it has to do with restoration issues.

The comic in question is Fantastic Four #48. It came back as 8.0 with white pages. I bought this book when I was 12 or 13 years old for about $20 at a local comic book convention. That was almost 40 years ago. So what I'm asking is are there a lot of books from that time period that might also have been trimmed. Because until recently, say the last 15-20 years, is where you hear of books being restored. Most of my collection consists of books purchased directly off the shelf. Especially from 1975-present. Are there any other possibilities that this might be an error in grader judgement and it may have been a poor cut from the factory? Because a book purchased forty years ago you'd think would be safe. It also scares me because I purchased four other books from the same guy at this convention. My other question is what this book might sell for at an auction.

[Unca Ben]

Pictures when you get the book back?

Any pics before slabbing would be great as well.

[DR.X]

I have earlier books than that come back top edge trimmed.

 

[Chaseman210]

Do you have scans of the book before you sent it to CGC?

[jajsage]

No. I submitted this book along with 19 others on the spur of the moment at the May Detroit Comic con. Its probably a good idea to do both a before and after.

[Arkham]

My other question is what this book might sell for at an auction.

 

Sorry to hear about the unwanted surprise!!

 

There's not a ton of recent data on sales of an 8.0 with cover trim... Last two sales were 2012 and 2004.

 

It looks like, in both years, the sale price was about 50% of an unrestored copy's sale price.

 

Been some pretty wild fluctuations in sales pricing over the years.

 

I'd recommend trialling a month's subscription over at gpanalysis.com for analysing sales of graded books.

 

 

 

 

[Tempus Fugit]

 

 

Trimming was definitely a thing in some circles back in the day.

[miraclemet]

I bought this book when I was 12 or 13 years old for about $20 at a local comic book convention. That was almost 40 years ago. So what I'm asking is are there a lot of books from that time period that might also have been trimmed. Because until recently, say the last 15-20 years, is where you hear of books being restored....

 

Think about it this way... if the comic book market was such that it would support a convention with dealers (since that's where you bought the book), then the market would be such that there would be incentive for a dealer to make his books look better than they were (i.e. trimming, color touch) to maximize profit. FF48 has always been considered a key, so improving the appearance of the book makes sense, even 40 years ago...

 

Are there any other possibilities that this might be an error in grader judgement and it may have been a poor cut from the factory? Because a book purchased forty years ago you'd think would be safe.

 

The only books I assume are safe are the ones I bought off the shelf/rack.People suggest all the time that a trimmed book is just a poor factory cut. I assume that CGC considers this as well during their restoration check. If you are sure, you can always resubmit, remember, grading (and restoration assessment) is always just an opinion (granted it's a well built, formed opinion based on tens of thousands of books and many years of experience... but it's just an opinion)

 

There's always that possibility, but trimming detection also has to do with paper wear. Assuming the page was trimmed in the 70s, it would appear "newer" than the paper that had been exposed to air since the 60s

 

It also scares me because I purchased four other books from the same guy at this convention.

 

yep that's something worth being worried about.

[Kevin76]

This is why CGC was created

[jimjum12]

Trimming is the one type of resto in which even experts can be wrong, even CGC. Certain dealers back in those days were performing many acts of restoration on books, so if you purchased the group of 4 from one of those, then it's likely the others may be doctored as well. One thing many people don't realize about trimming is that not all examples of it involve the entire edge in question, sometimes it is only a section of an inch or so, just enough to remove a tiny flaw. A CGC rep once explained that to me in a phone call. Without seeing good pictures of your book, it would be hard to advise.... and even then, a book really needs to be "in hand" to make a determination. Considering you only have 20 bucks in the FF 48, it may be feasible for you to resub the book for a second opinion..... but if it comes back trimmed again, It likely is. GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

[THE_BEYONDER]

Trimming is the one type of resto in which even experts can be wrong, even CGC. Certain dealers back in those days were performing many acts of restoration on books, so if you purchased the group of 4 from one of those, then it's likely the others may be doctored as well. One thing many people don't realize about trimming is that not all examples of it involve the entire edge in question, sometimes it is only a section of an inch or so, just enough to remove a tiny flaw. A CGC rep once explained that to me in a phone call. Without seeing good pictures of your book, it would be hard to advise.... and even then, a book really needs to be "in hand" to make a determination. Considering you only have 20 bucks in the FF 48, it may be feasible for you to resub the book for a second opinion..... but if it comes back trimmed again, It likely is. GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

 

Let's say he submits it again & it comes back Blue. What then? Did CGC screw up the 1st time or the 2nd time? Does one disclose the original submission?

[Arkham]

Trimming is the one type of resto in which even experts can be wrong, even CGC. Certain dealers back in those days were performing many acts of restoration on books, so if you purchased the group of 4 from one of those, then it's likely the others may be doctored as well. One thing many people don't realize about trimming is that not all examples of it involve the entire edge in question, sometimes it is only a section of an inch or so, just enough to remove a tiny flaw. A CGC rep once explained that to me in a phone call. Without seeing good pictures of your book, it would be hard to advise.... and even then, a book really needs to be "in hand" to make a determination. Considering you only have 20 bucks in the FF 48, it may be feasible for you to resub the book for a second opinion..... but if it comes back trimmed again, It likely is. GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

 

Let's say he submits it again & it comes back Blue. What then? Did CGC screw up the 1st time or the 2nd time? Does one disclose the original submission?

 

[jimjum12]

Trimming is the one type of resto in which even experts can be wrong, even CGC. Certain dealers back in those days were performing many acts of restoration on books, so if you purchased the group of 4 from one of those, then it's likely the others may be doctored as well. One thing many people don't realize about trimming is that not all examples of it involve the entire edge in question, sometimes it is only a section of an inch or so, just enough to remove a tiny flaw. A CGC rep once explained that to me in a phone call. Without seeing good pictures of your book, it would be hard to advise.... and even then, a book really needs to be "in hand" to make a determination. Considering you only have 20 bucks in the FF 48, it may be feasible for you to resub the book for a second opinion..... but if it comes back trimmed again, It likely is. GOD BLESS....

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)

 

Let's say he submits it again & it comes back Blue. What then? Did CGC screw up the 1st time or the 2nd time? Does one disclose the original submission?

 

..... for me, it would depend on extenuating factors...... If I was certain the book was Blue to begin with, I might not see the point in casting a shadow over it. For example, if it had come from an original owner collection or I had bought it off the rack myself. If I was unsure myself, I'd feel compelled to be honest and disclose (which is probably why I'm not rich ) That's definitely a good question. GOD BLESS...

 

-jimbo(a friend of jesus)