MILE HIGH ACTION #1 VS ALLENTOWN DETECTIVE # 27

[Aman619]

my information on that card is different. I spoke with the head of Fleer Cards back in the 90s and he told me with greta authority that the card was cut out of an uncut sheet. As such, it wouldnt have had to have been retrimmed again later. I dont have any backup or proof, but he was a longtime collector and obviously well placed in the business and hobby. Wish I could remember his name....

 

And why should Dave have to show his Action 1??? Im not showing mine either!! :crazy

[Abrams-migration]

As someone who has been in the card and comic world for years I can say that there is no comparison in the two. The amount of doctored cards in PSA holders is incredable. It is an epidemic that can eventually destroy the credibility of PSA. To the educated card collector, SGC is the only credible service. PSA and GAI have basterdized their product by turning a blind eye to card trimming, it is remarkable. There are PSA dealers who are serial trimmers and the public at large just does not catch on.

[Rip]

NO question there's more trimming going on in the sports card business.

I've seen the before and after scans on the card forums far more frequently that the trouble we see here. What do you think of Beckett grading by the way?

[Abrams-migration]

The grading services in terms of integrity rank as follows.

SGC far and away #1

GAI

PSA

Beckett They are the worst of the four period. Thier knowledge of vintage material is virtually non existant. If you read the netowrk 54 forum that was referenced above you can confirm this.

 

As a side note I see some siilarities between PSA and CGC. I hope that CGC does not follow the same path that PSA went down.

[Rip]

Not to hijack the thread any further but did you see the results of the latest Edwards Auction.

 

Ruth 1914 PSA 4 now seems to be the second most expensive card at $243,600

Just a jaw dropping auction

[Abrams-migration]

You are probably correct. The t210 Jackson might be third now a copy sold in the REA sale.

[Rip]

Yea those cards never seem to come up for sale that was like 92K.

I love looking at those older cards. I also can't wait to get my copy of Smithsonian Baseball.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/det...ks&n=507846

The closest thing we have in comics is the Gerber Photo Journal.

[esquirecomics]

The grading services in terms of integrity rank as follows.

SGC far and away #1

GAI

PSA

Beckett They are the worst of the four period. Thier knowledge of vintage material is virtually non existant. If you read the netowrk 54 forum that was referenced above you can confirm this.

 

As a side note I see some siilarities between PSA and CGC. I hope that CGC does not follow the same path that PSA went down.

 

Abrams, can you please expand/elaborate about the differences in these grading companies and why you believe PSA is most comparable to CGC. This would be very interesting and helpful.

[Rip]

The grading services in terms of integrity rank as follows.

SGC far and away #1

GAI

PSA

Beckett They are the worst of the four period. Thier knowledge of vintage material is virtually non existant. If you read the netowrk 54 forum that was referenced above you can confirm this.

 

As a side note I see some siilarities between PSA and CGC. I hope that CGC does not follow the same path that PSA went down.

 

Abrams, can you please expand/elaborate about the differences in these grading companies and why you believe PSA is most comparable to CGC. This would be very interesting and helpful.

 

I believe he sees simularities with PSA and CGC because they are the largest in the business and that they have (big) problems detecting trimming. Also sometimes it is very obvious where the trimming is coming from.

 

I can't argue with that fact that PSA has problems. Because they do.

But one thing to consider however is that PSA does command the highest prices (not taking in to account pristine mint as PSA has no grade for that) so the incentive to send your trimmed cards to SGC is less. PSA also has an incredibly large registry where people have been building their sets for years. PSA has also graded millions more cards than any other professionaly graded company. (PSA has graded over 8 MILLION cards since 1991!!)

So you are going to see more mistakes by PSA.

 

I'll give you an example of how crazy trimming can get however

http://www.psacard.com/message_boards.chtml (type "trimmed" in the search)

 

I asked the question on the SGC boards a while ago. "Who are your 3 favorite grading companys?" http://boards.collectors-society.com/sho...part=1&vc=1

Interesting thread.

[Abrams-migration]

You are correct, PSA dominates the graded card world. Among the elite card buyers in the card world there is an expectaion that the PSA house of cards (excuse the pun) will collapse.

As far as priced realized go you are wrong. At this time SGC brings higher dollars in the pre WWII arena (check Mastronet Aug 2005 sale) than PSA or SGC. Sophisticated Collectors know that SGC is the only service that actually can consitantly detect trimming in the card grading world. Even the guys who have millions invested in PSA plastic will admit it. The reason they can is simple, they are small, they grade a fraction of the cards that PSA grades and they are much more concerned about quality not quantity. The PSA card market is bizarre the collectors seem to be in collective denial. They do not want to know what problems lie in their slabs.

Basically the stragety SGC takes is as follows, take absolutely no chances when grading a card. If it has a questionable cut do not grade it and as far the grade goes, be conservative. The strategy is working. I can see a service getting into comics and doing the same thing as SGC. Grade tight be conservative and your prices realized will eventualy surpass CGC.

That being said, CGC handles problems much better that PSA, they deal with them. PSA basically goes by the old adage deny, deny, deny. Have you heard of the WIWAG holder scam?

[esquirecomics]

Abrams and RIP thanks so much for the info. I have been an avid baseball card collector over the years but never engaged in card slabbing. I actually find card slabbing more preferable than for comics for the very obvious reason that you lose nothing of the enjoyment.

 

I think there are a lot of lessons or relevant observations that can be learned/utilized from how the card community has dealt with slabbing.

 

Can either of you tell us about who owns the card slabbing companies? Are they dealers? Collectors? Just shrewd businessmen? Do they hold themselves out to be the saviors of the community, i.e., minimizing fraud, reflecting the standards of the community, etc.

[Rip]

You are correct, PSA dominates the graded card world. Among the elite card buyers in the card world there is an expectaion that the PSA house of cards (excuse the pun) will collapse.

As far as priced realized go you are wrong. At this time SGC brings higher dollars in the pre WWII arena (check Mastronet Aug 2005 sale) than PSA or SGC. Sophisticated Collectors know that SGC is the only service that actually can consitantly detect trimming in the card grading world. Even the guys who have millions invested in PSA plastic will admit it. The reason they can is simple, they are small, they grade a fraction of the cards that PSA grades and they are much more concerned about quality not quantity. The PSA card market is bizarre the collectors seem to be in collective denial. They do not want to know what problems lie in their slabs.

Basically the stragety SGC takes is as follows, take absolutely no chances when grading a card. If it has a questionable cut do not grade it and as far the grade goes, be conservative. The strategy is working. I can see a service getting into comics and doing the same thing as SGC. Grade tight be conservative and your prices realized will eventualy surpass CGC.

That being said, CGC handles problems much better that PSA, they deal with them. PSA basically goes by the old adage deny, deny, deny. Have you heard of the WIWAG holder scam?

No I haven't seen the SGC results of that auction I do know SCG has the most amazing Cracker Jack cards. I am aware of the WIWAG holder tampering scadal. Clearly PSA screwed up bad. Basicly many lesser grade cards were being switched into a higher grade slabs/holders.

But with so much rumor and conjecture its hard to get fact from fiction.