WILL ALLENTOWN DETECTIVE #38 MEET RESERVE?

[tth2]

Ugh! Only $110,000 plus the juice.

 

That's 6k more than it sold for before, so it's not the worst result ever. Not great either.

 

Yeah, I guess the OS guide will be able to record another record sale here since it works out to $126,500 including the buyer's premium. Last time it sold for $105,000 which worked out to $120,750 including the BP.

 

I guess the only person to lose out here was JP himself after taking all of the commissions into account.

Yes, but Mark would've purchased it from him at $155K when he had it on eBay before.

 

Maybe I'm just a dumb- newbie unsophisticated in the complicated hedging strategies of BSDs, but can someone please explain why JP would be buying back his own books, instead of using a reserve? Or did Heritage have some side-deal with him waiving BP and sellers' commissions if JP ended up repurchasing?

[lou_fine]

Maybe I'm just a dumb- newbie unsophisticated in the complicated hedging strategies of BSDs, but can someone please explain why JP would be buying back his own books, instead of using a reserve? Or did Heritage have some side-deal with him waiving BP and sellers' commissions if JP ended up repurchasing?

 

Don't tell me that this is simply just another repurchase by JP. I thought this was just for the Marvel #1 original art. I wonder how many other books were repurchased by JP?

 

As for buying back his own books instead of placing a reserve......I guess it's hoping to catch a few prople who might be willing to place higher bids in hopes of winning who would otherwise not have if there was a high reserve in place.

[delekkerste]

Doesn't he still have the X-Men #1 original art?

 

He doesn't own it. It was consigned to him by its owner.

[tth2]

Maybe I'm just a dumb- newbie unsophisticated in the complicated hedging strategies of BSDs, but can someone please explain why JP would be buying back his own books, instead of using a reserve? Or did Heritage have some side-deal with him waiving BP and sellers' commissions if JP ended up repurchasing?

 

Don't tell me that this is simply just another repurchase by JP. I thought this was just for the Marvel #1 original art. I wonder how many other books were repurchased by JP?

 

As for buying back his own books instead of placing a reserve......I guess it's hoping to catch a few prople who might be willing to place higher bids in hopes of winning who would otherwise not have if there was a high reserve in place.

Yes, but wouldn't the economics of this strategy be tough to deal with, unless he's got some side-deal with Heritage waiving the BP and seller's commissions? Otherwise, he'll have spent a decent amount of money to be exactly where he started from.

[esquirecomics]

My understanding is that JP owes Heritage a lot of money from prior auctions. Given his past relationship with Heritage, it would not surprise me at all that he arranged a special accommodation for fees regarding certain lots. Heritage definitely does that.

[Silver Surfer]

My understanding is that JP owes Heritage a lot of money from prior auctions. Given his past relationship with Heritage, it would not surprise me at all that he arranged a special accommodation for fees regarding certain lots. Heritage definitely does that.

 

When you say "owes" do you mean "earned". I would have thoguht that fees would have been taken right off the top?

[esquirecomics]

My understanding is that JP owes Heritage a lot of money from prior auctions. Given his past relationship with Heritage, it would not surprise me at all that he arranged a special accommodation for fees regarding certain lots. Heritage definitely does that.

 

When you say "owes" do you mean "earned". I would have thoguht that fees would have been taken right off the top?

 

I am certainly not going off first-hand info so take it with that caveat, but one dealer told me that JP owes Heritage money from past purchases.

[rob_react]

Doesn't he still have the X-Men #1 original art?

 

He doesn't own it. It was consigned to him by its owner.

 

Interesting

[Aman619]

My understanding is that JP owes Heritage a lot of money from prior auctions. Given his past relationship with Heritage, it would not surprise me at all that he arranged a special accommodation for fees regarding certain lots. Heritage definitely does that.

 

When you say "owes" do you mean "earned". I would have thoguht that fees would have been taken right off the top?

 

I am certainly not going off first-hand info so take it with that caveat, but one dealer told me that JP owes Heritage money from past purchases.

 

also interesting. Seems having a lot of money can mean not having to actually pay your bills on time. If this is really true, and Heritage accomodates a big spender like this.... where do we sign up for special services??

[tth2]

My understanding is that JP owes Heritage a lot of money from prior auctions. Given his past relationship with Heritage, it would not surprise me at all that he arranged a special accommodation for fees regarding certain lots. Heritage definitely does that.

 

When you say "owes" do you mean "earned". I would have thoguht that fees would have been taken right off the top?

 

I am certainly not going off first-hand info so take it with that caveat, but one dealer told me that JP owes Heritage money from past purchases.

 

also interesting. Seems having a lot of money can mean not having to actually pay your bills on time. If this is really true, and Heritage accomodates a big spender like this.... where do we sign up for special services??

As the saying goes: "If you owe a little money to a bank, then the bank owns you. If you owe a lot of money to a bank, then you own the bank."

[Aman619]

that about sums it up! I gotta stop paying my bills!

[tth2]

that about sums it up! I gotta stop paying my bills!

But they have to be BIG bills, otherwise you're just a regular deadbeat!

[Bullet123]

Ugh! Only $110,000 plus the juice.

 

That's 6k more than it sold for before, so it's not the worst result ever. Not great either.

 

Yeah, I guess the OS guide will be able to record another record sale here since it works out to $126,500 including the buyer's premium. Last time it sold for $105,000 which worked out to $120,750 including the BP.

 

I guess the only person to lose out here was JP himself after taking all of the commissions into account.

Yes, but Mark would've purchased it from him at $155K when he had it on eBay before.

 

Maybe I'm just a dumb- newbie unsophisticated in the complicated hedging strategies of BSDs, but can someone please explain why JP would be buying back his own books, instead of using a reserve? Or did Heritage have some side-deal with him waiving BP and sellers' commissions if JP ended up repurchasing?

For all you conspiracy theorists out there, let me set the record straight. No, JP was not shill bidding on this book, I was the underbidder on this book. I was also one of the bidders on this book when it was on EBAY however I was not the underbidder then. I beleive Mr Zaid was. I wanted the book, however for those that have been paying attention, there is a lot of great material in this auction so I have to pick and choose my battles. The book went to a collector and I know for a fact he would have went higher so rather than punish bid him, I simply chose to bow out gracefully and move on to other books. There was plenty to go around at this auction and I am not done yet. Yes, I am one of those people that will pay 50,000+ for a single book and no, my bank account is not endless. I can not spend that kind of money on a book just to buy it. I need to think that is was a prudent purchase. By that I mean that I am not the only one willing to spend anywhere near that kind of money for a book. If anyone wants to chat on this subject further, I will be more than happy to dispel any of the rumors regarding Heritage's supposed shilling. I laugh when I see people on here theorizing about all the conspiracys about shill bidding when I have either bought the book or have been the underbidder on the book. (I guess that makes me a Heritage shill I happen to think they are one of the better auction houses by letting you know before the auction ends whether you are bidding against a reserve or another person. I wish other auction houses would do the same.

[esquirecomics]

My understanding is that JP owes Heritage a lot of money from prior auctions. Given his past relationship with Heritage, it would not surprise me at all that he arranged a special accommodation for fees regarding certain lots. Heritage definitely does that.

 

When you say "owes" do you mean "earned". I would have thoguht that fees would have been taken right off the top?

 

I am certainly not going off first-hand info so take it with that caveat, but one dealer told me that JP owes Heritage money from past purchases.

 

also interesting. Seems having a lot of money can mean not having to actually pay your bills on time. If this is really true, and Heritage accomodates a big spender like this.... where do we sign up for special services??

 

I am now not sure if it was JP I was being told about so let me gracefully retract my reference to him just to be safe. HOWEVER, the general issue of owing Heritage a lot of money for purchases is a reality and that I do know exists for at least one, and no doubt more, prominent dealers. They do offer credit lines just like a bank. The books are taken as collateral. Nothing really sinister or unusual with that.

[Aman619]

but do these debtors get to take the books with them and STILL owe the money? If not, it throws into debate whether that ever actually "owned" them and it could be Heritage selling them (as collateral perhaps) now if they already paid the consignors... But I do know th eTec 38 was in his possession since Hughes carted it around some shows I went to.

[esquirecomics]

but do these debtors get to take the books with them and STILL owe the money? If not, it throws into debate whether that ever actually "owned" them and it could be Heritage selling them (as collateral perhaps) now if they already paid the consignors... But I do know th eTec 38 was in his possession since Hughes carted it around some shows I went to.

 

I believe, but am not entirely positive, that until the books are fully paid off Heritage will retain physical possession. Simple enough to find out by an e-mail or call to Heritage.

[tth2]

For all you conspiracy theorists out there, let me set the record straight. No, JP was not shill bidding on this book, I was the underbidder on this book. I was also one of the bidders on this book when it was on EBAY however I was not the underbidder then. I beleive Mr Zaid was. I wanted the book, however for those that have been paying attention, there is a lot of great material in this auction so I have to pick and choose my battles. The book went to a collector and I know for a fact he would have went higher so rather than punish bid him, I simply chose to bow out gracefully and move on to other books. There was plenty to go around at this auction and I am not done yet. Yes, I am one of those people that will pay 50,000+ for a single book and no, my bank account is not endless. I can not spend that kind of money on a book just to buy it. I need to think that is was a prudent purchase. By that I mean that I am not the only one willing to spend anywhere near that kind of money for a book. If anyone wants to chat on this subject further, I will be more than happy to dispel any of the rumors regarding Heritage's supposed shilling. I laugh when I see people on here theorizing about all the conspiracys about shill bidding when I have either bought the book or have been the underbidder on the book. (I guess that makes me a Heritage shill I happen to think they are one of the better auction houses by letting you know before the auction ends whether you are bidding against a reserve or another person. I wish other auction houses would do the same.

Just to be clear, I was not accusing JP of shill bidding, because it seemed clear to me that he was bidding on his items to win them outright rather than to drive up another bidder`s price (although now that I think of it, the classic definition of shill bidding is to bid on your own auction, regardless of the result or intention). I was just trying to make sense of this strategy (on the assumption he really was doing this).

 

Also, my comments about JP being the buyer were misplaced in this thread. I did not mean to imply that JP had repurchased the Detective 38 too, although I am glad to hear you confirm that another collector had purchased it. I had just read the comments in the thread about the Marvel #1 OA about JP/Hughes having been the purchaser, and apparently that thought was still in my mind as I read this thread and made my response to Dean`s post.

 

And I agree with you that the conspiracy theories about Heritage are overdone.

[Bullet123]

I, too am uncomfortable with Bill Hughes being able to work for Heritage and bid on items. IMO, once you become an employee of the auction house, you should relenquish your ability to bid if, for no other reason, then to remove the appearance of impropriety. I think that just like with CGC employees, there are things that they can and cannot do. There are plenty of other arenas where employees of Heritage can purchase books. There IMO is way too much of a conflict of interest there.

[esquirecomics]

What does Hughes do for Heritage?

[Bullet123]

It is my understanding that he acquires items for their auctions by either outright purchase or securing the consignments. It is also my understanding that he no longer works for JP/The Mint