Signs of pressing 0

[joeypost]

1 hour ago, Dogsupreme said:

Here is a sample of a before and after pressing:

Here is an example of slightly flared corners. Top and bottom outside edges tend to "lift" slightly. CGC would give a book like this a slight hit because of the flaring. Staples also look slightly recessed. Another issue CGC would deduct for.

[Bomber-Bob]

3 hours ago, MastrCntrlProgram said:

How do we know the Avengers 1 example didn't have a pre-existing spine roll without a back scan? And if it did have a spine roll, am I understanding the general public would rather keep the spine rolls then see the pages stick out? By the way, Pages sticking out on early Silver age is normal from production cuts. 

I don't think I understand your comments. Are you defending the practice of spine realignment ?  I realize that, according to the rules of restoration, it is 'legal' but I don't think it belongs in our hobby. The Avengers 1 was not an example of a spine roll flattened out. I remember seeing BC scans but I don't have them. I keep hearing that pages sticking out is 'normal' but not as exaggerated as this example.

[Dogsupreme]

2 hours ago, joeypost said:

Here is an example of slightly flared corners. Top and bottom outside edges tend to "lift" slightly. CGC would give a book like this a slight hit because of the flaring. Staples also look slightly recessed. Another issue CGC would deduct for.

The book was submitted to CGC after pressing and it came back 9.0. I think before pressing it probably would have been a 8.5.

[Dogsupreme]

Here is an extreme case of pressing. I got a IRON FIST #14 from my LCS for about $20 due to the wrinkles as you can see in the before pictures. I went to my comic press guy and it came back much nicer looking as you can see. There can be a great difference in appearance.

Here are before and after pics.

Edited May 31, 2017 by Dogsupreme

[Dogsupreme]

Another before and after pic of a DETECTIVE 359. Came back CGC 7.0

 

Edited May 31, 2017 by Dogsupreme

[Dogsupreme]

Here's a before and after of BATMAN 232. Came back CGC 5.5.

[Bomber-Bob]

1 hour ago, Dogsupreme said:

Here's a before and after of BATMAN 232. Came back CGC 5.5.

I'm not sure why you are showing us these pressing examples ? Some books will improve with pressing, so what ? The discussion, per the OP, was about detecting pressing, how can you tell if a book has been pressed ? BTW, not sure who is doing your pressing but all the after results look wavy to me.

[Hero Restoration]

6 hours ago, Bomber-Bob said:

I don't think I understand your comments. Are you defending the practice of spine realignment ?  I realize that, according to the rules of restoration, it is 'legal' but I don't think it belongs in our hobby. The Avengers 1 was not an example of a spine roll flattened out. I remember seeing BC scans but I don't have them. I keep hearing that pages sticking out is 'normal' but not as exaggerated as this example.

No, I don't condone aligning the spine beyond how it was originally, but without the back scan I wouldn't assume it was. Usually a Avengers 1 pages will stick out a little but I can't see them in the before, which generally indicates a spine roll. I will however take your word for it if you saw the back cover, and the pages were not fanned out.

Edited June 1, 2017 by MastrCntrlProgram

[W16227]

6 hours ago, Dogsupreme said:

 

8 hours ago, joeypost said:

Here is an example of slightly flared corners. Top and bottom outside edges tend to "lift" slightly. CGC would give a book like this a slight hit because of the flaring. Staples also look slightly recessed. Another issue CGC would deduct for.

The book was submitted to CGC after pressing and it came back 9.0. I think before pressing it probably would have been a 8.5.

 

What Joey is pointing out are the signs of pressing that can be detected that will hurt the grade. A 9.0 is good - but would you rather have a 9.2? 

Look at your last example (Batman) - looks like more significant flaring. Cost you .5 on that one for sure just for that flare.   

[Bomber-Bob]

6 hours ago, Dogsupreme said:

Another before and after pic of a DETECTIVE 359. Came back CGC 7.0

 

I'm sorry but I don't think this was a good press job at all. This looks like a quick press, high heat, with no attention to detail at all. Those spine creases should have been spot pressed or minimally had another press applied a while later. I may be wrong but in the Before I see a smudge next to Batgirl's left knee. In the After, the smudge is 'gone' but appears to have been smeared and distributed resulting in a broader darkened area. Sorry but I would use a different presser in the future.

[Dogsupreme]

I have used the same presser for years and I am very happy with results and he is very experienced.

I did not realize that I was opening a can of worms by posting examples and my experiences. I thought I was being helpful. Oh, well.

[W16227]

35 minutes ago, Dogsupreme said:

I have used the same presser for years and I am very happy with results and he is very experienced.

I did not realize that I was opening a can of worms by posting examples and my experiences. I thought I was being helpful. Oh, well.

-- pressing discussions can always be a can of worms -

You did show examples of quick press jobs and show what can be easily seen with an inexperienced presser, so it did add in to the discussion - just not in the way you expected.

A good takeaway for you --- is that you may be happy with your presser - but there is a reason the big hitters get the results that they do ( and two of them have posted in this thread). The books  you showed, were all improvable ( and improved) with your guy, but two had obvious flaring and one really looked only halfway complete. The pros - would likely have given you at least one more grade bump with the flaring, and maybe more on the TEC that still shows a lot of waves.

 

[Dogsupreme]

21 minutes ago, W16227 said:

-- pressing discussions can always be a can of worms -

You did show examples of quick press jobs and show what can be easily seen with an inexperienced presser, so it did add in to the discussion - just not in the way you expected.

A good takeaway for you --- is that you may be happy with your presser - but there is a reason the big hitters get the results that they do ( and two of them have posted in this thread). The books  you showed, were all improvable ( and improved) with your guy, but two had obvious flaring and one really looked only halfway complete. The pros - would likely have given you at least one more grade bump with the flaring, and maybe more on the TEC that still shows a lot of waves.

 

I understand that now. Thanks for the feedback.

 

[Bomber-Bob]

1 hour ago, Dogsupreme said:

I understand that now. Thanks for the feedback.

 

Please understand, historically, these pressing discussions can become pretty 'heated'. My desire to keep the thread on track was simply to keep the conversations civilized and avoid conflicts. I appreciate your civil responses and your examples turned out to be valuable, though as mentioned above, not in the way you intended. Regarding your presser, I am sorry but I still don't think he is doing a good job, adequate maybe, but not good. He has a press, knows how to turn it on, but his skill set appears to stop there. Thanks again for being a good sport about all this.

[Dogsupreme]

2 hours ago, Bomber-Bob said:

Please understand, historically, these pressing discussions can become pretty 'heated'. My desire to keep the thread on track was simply to keep the conversations civilized and avoid conflicts. I appreciate your civil responses and your examples turned out to be valuable, though as mentioned above, not in the way you intended. Regarding your presser, I am sorry but I still don't think he is doing a good job, adequate maybe, but not good. He has a press, knows how to turn it on, but his skill set appears to stop there. Thanks again for being a good sport about all this.

Nothing ventured. Nothing gained. I understand this can be a point of contention. Especially since even the slightest .5 can change the value of a key book. I just wanted to share my experiences. That is all. You are entitled to your opinion and I respect that. I appreciate pointing out his short comings and I will certainly mention it to him but I have known him for a long time. I may start looking into how CGC presses their book and compare.

[PovertyRow]

On 5/22/2017 at 7:49 PM, Bomber-Bob said:

Same book. Before and after a spine realignment, with a press. Note the exaggerated fanning on the right. IMO, a telltale sign and I stay away from books that look like this.

Looking at the price box, Thor and Iron Man are shifted much more to the left  in the after-pressing example, which understandably leaves much less cover on the right (exposing more of the inner pages).  I consider myself conversant in restoration but am not sure how this is spine realignment? It seems more like spine mis-alignment.  What am I missing? Is this a Pov "Duh" moment? 

[NoMan]

Thanks for all the input here and folks who took the time to post before and after pics. I kinda forgot I started this thread so I didn't check it. Lots of replies that I'll enjoy reading at work tomorrow when I'm suppose to be working!

[Bomber-Bob]

5 hours ago, ThatPovGuy said:

Looking at the price box, Thor and Iron Man are shifted much more to the left  in the after-pressing example, which understandably leaves much less cover on the right (exposing more of the inner pages).  I consider myself conversant in restoration but am not sure how this is spine realignment? It seems more like spine mis-alignment.  What am I missing? Is this a Pov "Duh" moment? 

You are correct, the price box has been shifted to the left, along with the whole spine. Note the staples are no longer visible on the After pic. Giving the book a new spine, shifting the front cover to the back, hides the spine creases on the vertex and the back cover. Realignment, misalignment, whatever you want to call it it's a very aggressive technique.

[PovertyRow]

1 hour ago, Bomber-Bob said:

You are correct, the price box has been shifted to the left, along with the whole spine. Note the staples are no longer visible on the After pic. Giving the book a new spine, shifting the front cover to the back, hides the spine creases on the vertex and the back cover. Realignment, misalignment, whatever you want to call it it's a very aggressive technique.

Yeah, more like "spine hiding". I am surprised and disappointed at CGC giving a higher grade on something like this if the signs of the damaged spine still existed post-pressing. I would assume they do because, if they were pressable, the spine would not have been misaligned like that.  I feel like showering now.

[Bomber-Bob]

12 hours ago, ThatPovGuy said:

Yeah, more like "spine hiding". I am surprised and disappointed at CGC giving a higher grade on something like this if the signs of the damaged spine still existed post-pressing. I would assume they do because, if they were pressable, the spine would not have been misaligned like that.  I feel like showering now.

Regarding CGC, a lot of people were disappointed when this came up. Obviously, CGC seemed to be grading the  Back cover flaws more leniently than Front. The flaws were still there just moved from front to back. As Joey mentions above, supposedly they are more 'aware' of this technique and will be grading accordingly. In their defense, if the spine ticks were small enough, most of them would be 'hidden' on the vertex.  The game today seems to be how to fool CGC. Sad.