Is there any reason to believe Marvel Television's shows will ever be as good as the movies? 0

[fantastic_four]

Overall this has been an awful year for Marvel-produced television shows.  Inhumans was terrible, Iron Fist was terrible, the Defenders was bad, and Punisher was just OK.  Legion and The Gifted were probably the best Marvel-related shows, but those were produced by Fox and are about to come under the Marvel umbrella.  My understanding of the power structure with Marvel media is that the films are produced by Marvel Studios under Kevin Feige, and the shows are produced by Marvel Entertainment under Ike Perlmutter and Alan Fine.  Feige has proven to be the savviest media executive in all of comics, whereas it's clear that Perlmutter and Fine struggle just like all the others do.  Strangely, DC's shows have thrived of late while their films have languished, whereas with Marvel it's the opposite, the films are booming with Feige but wilting under Perlmutter/Fine.

Is there any reason to believe this will improve?  Why isn't Disney actively trying to fix this?  They must know by now that Perlmutter needs to either be outright fired or to at minimum have Marvel Entertainment taken away from him, so why isn't it happening?  

Edited December 28, 2017 by fantastic_four

[rjrjr]

9 hours ago, fantastic_four said:

Overall this has been an awful year for Marvel-produced television shows.  Inhumans was terrible, Iron Fist was terrible, the Defenders was bad, and Punisher was just OK.  Legion and The Gifted were probably the best Marvel-related shows, but those were produced by Fox and are about to come under the Marvel umbrella.  My understanding of the power structure with Marvel media is that the films are produced by Marvel Studios under Kevin Feige, and the shows are produced by Marvel Entertainment under Ike Perlmutter and Alan Fine.  Feige has proven to be the savviest media executive in all of comics, whereas it's clear that Perlmutter and Fine struggle just like all the others do.  Strangely, DC's shows have thrived of late while their films have languished, whereas with Marvel it's the opposite, the films are booming with Feige but wilting under Perlmutter/Fine.

Is there any reason to believe this will improve?  Why isn't Disney actively trying to fix this?  They must know by now that Perlmutter needs to either be outright fired or to at minimum have Marvel Entertainment taken away from him, so why isn't it happening?  

I disagree that Kevin Feige is savvy.  I think he has stumbled across a formula that works for the Marvel movies and has pretty much stuck to it feature after feature with little variation.  (Interestingly, those Marvel movies that don't follow the formula exactly are some of my favorite, even if they are not the biggest money makers.)

The television shows can improve, but if I was Disney, I'm not sure I would rock the cart.  Keep skimping on the television shows and sink that money into the tried and true formula they use for the movies.  The movies bring in more revenue and Netflix has already ponied up for the television shows, whether they are good or not.

Edited December 29, 2017 by rjrjr

[fmaz]

Not to completely disagree with your premise... but I think I would just frame the question in a different way when asking if the Marvel shows are as good as they could be.

I agree that the movies have been successful and that the TV shows have had some failures (Iron Fist, Inhumans)... but I think in general the Netflix shows have been strong and entertaining, and I think Agents of SHIELD has gotten better and better in the last few years.

Where Marvel appears to be leaving money on the table, however, is the in the way they refuse to acknowlege that the big MCU is all connected anymore.  No cameos for the Netflix heroes in any films, nor any crossovers with any movie characters in any of the Netflix shows... just a few refererences to people, places, or events.  And even in AOS... where once you had appearances from Sif, Maria Hill and even Nick Fury... now... nothing.   I've often thought that it wouldn't be that difficult to shoot a scene or two with the movie folks when they are in the process of doing a movie for the purposes of using it in one of the TV shows... if nothing else to be used in an episode airing in conjunction with the release of the movie!

Such cross promotion seems like one of the main reasons you'd WANT to have a connected universe.  Otherwise, you might as well be like DC... and have a movie Flash and a TV Flash both running around at the same time.  Nothing wrong with that, by the way, if the universes are completely separated.  it's confusing, but it's fine.   It's simply that Marvel has the opportunity to leverage their continuity... and they are stubbornly choosing not to for some reason.

So, yeah, I kind of reject your premise a bit... and ask "Is there any reason to believe Marvel's Television shows will be ever be as as good as they could be ... if they leveraged their connection to the shared movie universe?" 

 

[Bosco685]

18 hours ago, fantastic_four said:

and the shows are produced by Marvel Entertainment under Ike Perlmutter and Alan Fine.  Feige has proven to be the savviest media executive in all of comics, whereas it's clear that Perlmutter and Fine struggle just like all the others do.  Strangely, DC's shows have thrived of late while their films have languished, whereas with Marvel it's the opposite, the films are booming with Feige but wilting under Perlmutter/Fine.

Perlmutter isn't involved going forward. I thought we had that ironed out before.

Quote

Talk about putting a bow on this package. Although you do have to give it to Perlmutter helping Marvel become a financial powerhouse over time.

Ike Perlmutter No Longer Marvel CEO! Hallelujah!

Quote

In an article that was actually published at the end of May, THR (h/t reddit) reports the eccentric billionaire, Ike Perlmutter, is no longer the Marvel CEO. The article points out:

 

"His aversion to the limelight runs so deep that he's no longer CEO of Marvel, and yet, news outlets continue to confer that title upon him because there has never been any press release announcing he had relinquished that role."

 

A quick check of Ike Perlmutter's Wiki also references the article and notes Ike Perlmutter's end date is unknown, which may mean Perlmutter had stopped being Marvel CEO prior to May.

 

Ike Perlmutter has been CEO of Marvel since 2005 and has been blamed for a host of problems within the company including issues with Kevin Feige and Marvel Studios. 

 

Kevin Feige actually had to go above Ike Perlmutter to Disney CEO Bob Iger to remove Perlmutter and his Marvel Comics Creative Committee (Alan Fine, Dan Buckley, Joe Quesada, Brian Bendis) from being involved with the movies.

 

Ike Perlmutter is also said to be responsible for there not being a female Marvel Studios movie, which obviously blew up in his face when Wonder Woman was released earlier this year as it's currently WB's #3 movie of all time in North America and the #9 comic book movie adaptation.

 

Interestingly enough, while we all missed the news of Ike Perlmutter no longer being Marvel CEO, the past couple of months have seen the X-Men and Wolverine return to comics, gaming and merchandise. It's also speculated that the Fantastic Four may be returning to Marvel comics. In addition, Marvel TV is also working with Fox on their X-Men TV series.

 

But part of what you called out may be the creative issue taking place. Feige broke away from the Marvel Creative Committee for good reasons: non-movie people tampering with stories, budgets and director control. Feige even noted if he hadn't broke away from the MCC, he doubted Civil War's $250M budget would have been approved.

Yet the TV division is still driven by that same small committee. And two of its members came up through the ranks under Ike Perlmutter, ensuring his expectations and direction are enforced. This could be part of the challenge for this division.

 

[Key Largo Comics]

Did you really think the Punisher was just OK? I thought it was quite good. On par with the Daredevil IMO.

[AnthonyTheAbyss]

Movies have the benefit of expensive CGI to cover up weak story plots and bad acting.  TV shows, in general, have to rely strictly on story/scripts/acting.  With Marvel being risk adverse with their TV characters it makes it difficult for creators to go "outside the box".

 

I think the TV shows are doing very good with what they are allowed to do with limited freedom.

 

We will see significant improvement once the streaming service gets up and running.  More money, more risks, better product.