PhilipB2k17 Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 (edited) The entirety of Tales to Astonish #27 - which includes the 1st App of Ant-Man - sold for a mere $65,000 back in 2002. Safe to say that person bought it at a relative bargain price https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/jack-kirby-don-heck-bob-forgione-steve-ditko-original-art-for-tales-to-astonish-27-complete-book-marvel-1961-it-i/a/803-5990.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515 Anyone want to take a stab at what it would sell for at Auction if it came up today? Minimum $250k? More? Less? Edited March 20, 2018 by PhilipB2k17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vodou Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 2 hours ago, PhilipB2k17 said: The entirety of Tales to Astonish #27 - which includes the 1st App of Ant-Man - sold for a mere $65,000 back in 2002. Safe to say that person bought it at a relative bargain price https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/jack-kirby-don-heck-bob-forgione-steve-ditko-original-art-for-tales-to-astonish-27-complete-book-marvel-1961-it-i/a/803-5990.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515 Anyone want to take a stab at what it would sell for at Auction if it came up today? Minimum $250k? More? Less? TTA27 is not and never will be TOS39. Ant Man will always be Ant Man. It might do $250k today, but I doubt more (well maybe $300k BP inclusive) and really only 225k back to the consignor (assuming HA 10% haircut). $65k in 2002 was not a relative bargain. So you're talking (a bit less than) 4x roi in 15+ years, especially not. Even 500k today would only be 7x roi. Look at the other options in the same auction and same year with the same sack o' cash. I'm sure there were many better choices. Unless you love Ant Man Too lazy to dig out examples but I can quickly tell you that I put $25299 into 61 pieces that year. I'm pretty sure 4x would be a disappointment to the me of then and also today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comix4fun Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 3 hours ago, PhilipB2k17 said: The entirety of Tales to Astonish #27 - which includes the 1st App of Ant-Man - sold for a mere $65,000 back in 2002. Safe to say that person bought it at a relative bargain price https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/jack-kirby-don-heck-bob-forgione-steve-ditko-original-art-for-tales-to-astonish-27-complete-book-marvel-1961-it-i/a/803-5990.s?ic4=GalleryView-Thumbnail-071515 Anyone want to take a stab at what it would sell for at Auction if it came up today? Minimum $250k? More? Less? Only a small portion of that story tied into marvel's "hero" roots...the first 7 pages. Even then there's, obviously, nothing in costume happening, etc. It's Kirby large art, which is great, but it's probably suffered if it's a competition between it and all the Marvel SA Large Hero art between 2002 and today. The rest of the book is pre-hero in small bites...5 pages of Ditko, 4 pages of Forgione, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 (edited) 9 minutes ago, comix4fun said: Only a small portion of that story tied into marvel's "hero" roots...the first 7 pages. Even then there's, obviously, nothing in costume happening, etc. It's Kirby large art, which is great, but it's probably suffered if it's a competition between it and all the Marvel SA Large Hero art between 2002 and today. The rest of the book is pre-hero in small bites...5 pages of Ditko, 4 pages of Forgione, etc. all that being said, I still think its 250 minimum. There's about 15 pages of pre hero including a ditko splash, there's some value (at least 50) to those other pages alone, and then that Ant Man splash is terrific. I don't know what the rest of the story is like, but there's good value to that splash for sure. And its not like there's a whole host of options for the guy wanting a marvel first appearance story in its entirety. Whatever negatives there might be to that story or that OA, it still is a big enough deal that I think it would go well past 250, to be honest. Its the sort of thing where even though its Ant Man... it would surprise to the upside IMO. Edited March 20, 2018 by Bronty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comix4fun Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Just now, Bronty said: all that being said, I still think its 250 minimum. There's about 15 pages of pre hero including a ditko splash, there's some value (at least 50) to those other pages alone, and then that Ant Man splash is terrific. I don't know what the rest of the story is like, but there's good value to that splash for sure. And its not like there's a whole host of options for the guy wanting a marvel first appearance story in its entirety. It may add up to that. It's possible. I didn't do a breakdown of the story pages closely enough to see what the Ant-Man would bring. But the rest of the pre-hero isn't Kirby though. He only did the Ant-Man story. Heritage just sold a pre-hero title splash from TOS 16 and it stopped short of $1,800.00 And this is that Ditko Splash: The Ant-Man story is 90% or more of the total value of that book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 I see your 1600 example was heck. Fair enough, the non Kirby ditko pages are probably only 10k . Still, the ditko pages will have value even if not a ton. I don’t mind that ditto splash. A lot of them leaving you wanting in a way. Lots of white space or a buttshot like this or other ‘issue’. It’s got the nice ditko musculature at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vodou Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, comix4fun said: It may add up to that. It's possible. I didn't do a breakdown of the story pages closely enough to see what the Ant-Man would bring. But the rest of the pre-hero isn't Kirby though. He only did the Ant-Man story. Heritage just sold a pre-hero title splash from TOS 16 and it stopped short of $1,800.00 And this is that Ditko Splash: The Ant-Man story is 90% or more of the total value of that book. Without the benefit of laying them all out side by side, my opinion is that's the last Ditko SA/LA splash anybody would want. All the rest would have to get burned up, verified, in the same horrible fire for that to ever elevate higher than...well it is Ditko...I guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 (edited) 3 minutes ago, vodou said: Without the benefit of laying them all out side by side, my opinion is that's the last Ditko SA/LA splash anybody would want. All the rest would have to get burned up, verified, in the same horrible fire for that to ever elevate higher than...well it is Ditko...I guess As you say, you haven't looked at them all JIM 83 splash: Edited March 20, 2018 by Bronty bc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comix4fun Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Bronty said: I see your 1600 example was heck. Fair enough, the non Kirby ditko pages are probably only 10k . Still, the ditko pages will have value even if not a ton. I don’t mind that ditto splash. A lot of them leaving you wanting in a way. Lots of white space or a buttshot like this or other ‘issue’. It’s got the nice ditko musculature at least. I used Heck because there's a 6 page Heck story included. That's a quarter of the issue. And more than 1/3 of the pre-hero, non-Ant-Man, pages. Edited March 20, 2018 by comix4fun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vodou Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Just now, Bronty said: As you say, you haven't looked at them all Correct. Money where your mouth is: (assuming you keep, no re-selling) how much would you actually pay for this splash, top dollar and not a penny (Canadian or otherwise) more? For me: zero. I truly wouldn't want to own (and keep) it for even one penny. Just more to store. I'd never pull it out and look at it. Ever. Maybe under further review I'd feel that way about many Ditko pre/non-hero SA/LA splashes. That could be, but since there are no negative prices, they would all tie at: zero. However, there are plenty that I would pay something for, hundreds even thousands, based on the the visual appeal to me. This one is just not that, not ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Suspense 29 bc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilipB2k17 Posted March 20, 2018 Author Share Posted March 20, 2018 (edited) 53 minutes ago, vodou said: TTA27 is not and never will be TOS39. Ant Man will always be Ant Man. It might do $250k today, but I doubt more (well maybe $300k BP inclusive) and really only 225k back to the consignor (assuming HA 10% haircut). $65k in 2002 was not a relative bargain. So you're talking (a bit less than) 4x roi in 15+ years, especially not. Even 500k today would only be 7x roi. Look at the other options in the same auction and same year with the same sack o' cash. I'm sure there were many better choices. Unless you love Ant Man Too lazy to dig out examples but I can quickly tell you that I put $25299 into 61 pieces that year. I'm pretty sure 4x would be a disappointment to the me of then and also today. It's a bargain - relative to what it would go for Today. 1. It's a Marvel silver-age hero 1st appearance complete story. 2. Ant-Man has considerably more cache now than back in 2002. 3. I think the "Ant-Man" splash alone is at least $100,000+. The Journey into Mystery #83 1st Thor panel page sold for $65,725 in 2012 https://comics.ha.com/itm/original-comic-art/jack-kirby-and-joe-sinnott-journey-into-mystery-83-first-appearance-of-thor-and-his-enchanted-hammer-mjol/a/7023-93146.s?ic4=GalleryView-ShortDescription-071515 Edited March 20, 2018 by PhilipB2k17 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 astonish 29 bc and comix4fun 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vodou Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 1 minute ago, Bronty said: Suspense 29 That's a tough one, but I'd take it over -Man. Fer sure. But I think I couldn't pay more than $30 for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vodou Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Just now, Bronty said: astonish 29 $850+. No problem. Like it quite a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 A lot of ditko pre hero splashes just aren't what the market wants. That said I'm surprised how little they hammer for. That Dead Planet splash would appear to be 10k on a good day, so Chris was right in saing the rest of the book won't have much value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comix4fun Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Just now, PhilipB2k17 said: It's a bargain - relative to what it would go for Today. 1. It's a Marvel silver-age hero 1st appearance complete story. 2. Ant-Man has considerably more cache now than back in 2002. If he would have been in costume I would probably feel more strongly about the story. delekkerste 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vodou Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 2 minutes ago, PhilipB2k17 said: It's a bargain - relative to what it would go for Today. I guess you're definition of bargain is any delta greater than 1:1 in exclusion? That's not my definition. Mine is real world and thus includes opportunity cost williamhlawson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 1 minute ago, vodou said: $850+. No problem. Like it quite a bit. I don't really need to know how much you'd pay for each individual page Point is, a lot of them aren't that strong and the one you were guessing was the single weakest ditko splash ever is probably average to above average. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
comix4fun Posted March 20, 2018 Share Posted March 20, 2018 Just now, Bronty said: A lot of ditko pre hero splashes just aren't what the market wants. That said I'm surprised how little they hammer for. That Dead Planet splash would appear to be 10k on a good day, so Chris was right in saing the rest of the book won't have much value. I've own a few of those backup stories and pre-hero items with no big name artists. They are fun to look at, and they are usually large art which is great, but they are so niche and novelty compared to the fervor and competition for the hero stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...