Raw vs. CGCed?

[hammer-migration]

Jamie, You're serious?? This is a large can of worms that you're opening with that kind of slanderous lies. "Gay Lover"? Are you serious, you hiding child?

[hammer-migration]

RUNT RUDD, Produce this email, you lying POS, brown nosing WUSS. You forget, I HAVE your address. Produce your email, if you can withdraw your tongue from someone's keister long enough to do so.

[Bugaboo-migration]

Don't make me pull out the......"and it makes me feel like a blushing schoolgirl to say that Bugaboo is my gay lover!" e-mails of yours

 

Sigh.....I dish out the "bags" by the metric ton......I guess I gotta have some thrown back my way.

[hammer-migration]

No Bug, You don't understand this RumpRustlingRudd. I do. I used to TUTOR him by email on comics. I have HUNDREDS of SAVED emails from him (if anyone wants a copy of any for themselves, just ask). Question after question on comics. EVERY piece of correct info he posts here on the forums are mine...word for word. The worst thing is when someone has a completely superior attitude, as RumpRustler has, and they are inferior to everyone else in every way. Of course, he is resentful of that. Rudd is the kid in Grammar school that was beat up every day. The kid who's mommy drove him to school and wouldn't let him play with us Ruffians. The kid who slept with mom until Dad finally put his foot down. A true Reprobate. A POS of the highest order. AND, needless to say, would never dream of repeating face to face what is said on the internet. He's well at home hiding behind the monitor, as he's hid from everything else his entire life, sociopath (his favorite word) that he is.

[PedigreeMan]

That would be an interesting non-disclosure agreement--"All employees must keep fraud perpetuated by the company in the strictest of confidence."

 

Wow. Presumably any lawyer who came up with something like that would have had an extremely hard time passing the bar, not to mention simply graduating law school! I mean, how badly can one fail Writing Effective Legalese 101 (er, that is, Basic Contract Law)?!

 

How about something like the following ....

 

The Recipient will not, without prior written approval of the party disclosing information, CGC (Disclosee), or an authorized representative thereof, disclose or in any other way make known, reveal, report, publish or transfer to any person, firm, corporation or utilize for competitive or any other purpose any secret information or know-how relative to the disclosed information, including but not limited to: any information designated as secret, the operation, plans, specifications, drawings, layouts, blueprints, patent applications, and other materials relating to the machinery, equipment, processes and products invented or used by the Disclosee.

 

(And for the record, IANAL, but I am married to one. Insert appropriate inappropriate joke ---> HERE)

 

Al

 

 

[hammer-migration]

Rudd is an expert on every subject known to man, AND he watches A&E Crime shows as well as Court TV, which in his mind puts him on equal footing with some of the greatest legal minds of our time. I'm sure that he would come up with some kind of loophole.

[fantastic_four]

I don't claim to know everything, and I don't believe I come across as arrogant. Someone besides Hammer correct me if I'm wrong, and I'll reconsider my attitude. I'm confident and outspoken, yes, but humility is a quality I greatly respect and constantly strive to exhibit. I never think I'm right about everything, or even most things. But I'm not afraid to be wrong, so I overextend myself sometimes. Most of the time, I explicitly state when I think an idea I'm relating is a guess, a hypothesis, or a more well-thought out theory. "There's more in heaven and earth than is dreamt of in your philosophy, Horatio" is a quote from Shakespeare's Hamlet which greatly influenced my persona a decade or so ago, and it encapsulates the reason why humility is an absolutely necessary quality to possess--NOBODY can know everything. The human mind is a pea in a vast whirlwhind of chaotic information in this universe of complexity.

 

And I also often give credit to people I have good relationships with, which includes quite a few people. I've given credit to you on several pieces of info I've related here, mostly related to restoration ideas. You're not the only learned comics sage I talk to, and we don't have a good relationship since I put forth the hypothesis that the person typing these forum messages and selling comics under the E-Bay account "comic-keys" is Daniel Dupcak and not Richard Koos. I repeatedly said I wasn't sure I was right, and that it was a hypothesis. I even repeatedly asked you to help dispel that rumor since it has permeated the vintage back issue industry long before you joined this board as Methuselah.

 

And nobody owns ideas--they're not yours, mine, or anybody's. We all learn 99.999% of our knowledge from somebody else. These are forums, a place for open discussion...why do you have a problem with open discussion?

 

Who pissed in your Cheerios this week? Your most recent foul mood can't just be over something as innocuous as a debate about how CGC grades books, can it?

[fantastic_four]

I'm definitely not a lawyer, but if a company sells a service or a product and an employee of that company has knowledge that the company is not providing the product or service that customers think they're getting, the company can't create any kind of nondisclosure agreement to prevent that individual from disclosing information about that fraud, can they?

 

In fact, it's against the law to not disclose fraud if you have knowledge of it, isn't it? That's what it seems it would be if CGC were saying on the slab label that they inspect a book with three graders but actually don't do that.

[drbanner]

NOBODY can know everything

 

Well, actually...nah, too easy...must refrain...

 

Anyhow, will somebody please pass the popcorn?

[PedigreeMan]

In fact, it's against the law to not disclose fraud if you have knowledge of it, isn't it?

 

Absolutely not. A court can find me in contempt if I refuse to testify in a fraud (or any other) case, and material witnesses to particularly heinous crimes (re: September 11-type badness) can apparently be "impounded" or whatever; but if someone does something illegal and I simply knew about it, can I be imprisoned ...? Heck no! If it was a well-publicized, egregrious homicide case, a DA might choose to charge me with "obstruction of justice" or something similar ... but in the case of simple (for lack of a better term) fraud? Laughable!

 

There are, however, laws that prevent reprisals against whistleblowers, which are notoriously difficult to get to come forward in instances where people die, so imagine the odds of finding one when dealing with simple fraud!

 

Nope, sorry ... unless some Deep Throat leaks the actual CGC memo that says they in reality determine grades by throwing darts at a dartboard, the secrets (both good and bad) within their walls will remain safely hidden.

 

Al

[fantastic_four]

There are, however, laws that prevent reprisals against whistleblowers, which are notoriously difficult to get to come forward in instances where people die, so imagine the odds of finding one when dealing with simple fraud!

I can imagine it being tough to get somebody to come forward to rat on a murderer; if they kill one person, then it's not a stretch to believe they'll kill someone else. But white-collar crime? If an employee gets disgruntled and leaves, what risk would they be personally assuming that would keep them from reporting the fraud? I'm sure it happens in a low percentage of cases, but it doesn't seem worth it to risk a business by defrauding customers on your core service.

 

We got off on this tangent because of Hammer's personal bias against me...getting back to the original point, CGC guarantees that three graders inspect every book. Hammer suggests that CGC may not spend the same amount of time on Economy books as they do on Express books, which sounds reasonable. But would they just shoot Economies straight to the final grader? I haven't seen anything in their history to suggest they would, although obviously nobody knows but them and it could be happening.

[fantastic_four]

Well perhaps you'll enjoy the e-mails he sent me then:

 

Let's see an excerpt from this email alluding to my having a gay lover, you lying, pencil necked, POS. You're NOTHING, you clown. You lying, miserable, 1/4 of a man. If I ever run into you, I'll make YOU my gay lover. How would you like that? That would of course mean that you'd have to take your tongue out of Borock's [!@#%^&^]. You're a hiding, spineless, yellow MICROBE who has NO guts to stand up to someone face to face and say something like that. EVERYONE knows that, backdown, backdoor boy.

Did anyone else not pick up the fact that I was being sarcastic with that comment about Bugaboo? If not, here it is now--I WASN'T SERIOUS. And also:

 

I know MANY people that say they're web designers, you POS. That's the white trash jargon for "BUM", just like in the ghetto they use "Rapper" to denote the same thing...

I read this second one this morning at work after I had spent a few hours making changes to our web site...I have no idea what motivated that one or even how the logic even makes sense.

[sborock]

! Thanks for the entertainment. Do you have anymore of these fine pieces of literature that you can pm me?

[fantastic_four]

I don't think I've posted the lawsuit threats yet. They're not quite as racy as the one above, but might be an interesting read:

 

October 21, 2002, 8:30 PM:

I cut VERY deeply into Bob's business. As he watched his overgraded, TRIMMED, blue top 9.4 CGCs not meet reserves, time and time again, he attributed MY offering the same selections as his, on Ebay, and getting prices for MINE that he wasn't, to chicanery. He had already started his nonsense before I sold a single book. Just when I was only BUYING. What crimes could I have committed just buying on Ebay? He and the Geek emailed me daily with thier theories of who I was, and I had not as of yet sold a single solitary book for months to come. Why? Because I was buying KEYS, live in proximity of NYC, and DON'T go to shows because I don't LIKE them, the crowds, the heat, the poor lighting, etc. You must remember, ANYTHING I tell you is done so with great care now because I know CGC, Bob, Geek, and 100 unknown parties will receive CCs of this email. Get busy.

 

October 21, 2002, 9:00 PM (the "ally" he's referring to is a member of the forum):

You forgot to mention YOUR part, a MAJOR one, in rallying against me. Do you honestly believe that of ALL the Parties that you have "discussed" me with in your countless emails about me to others, NO ONE shared with me the contents of your continuous, ever-evolving (to fit YOUR personal theories as "evidence" was shown to be worthless) banter of me? Do you think me completely without allies whom you have filled their ears with slanderous tripe? When it's time, when it best serves ME, financially, you'll have final proof of what a witchhunt this all really was, with the two people in the same room that are supposedly the same person. BUT, it will be in a Civil Court of Law, in which YOU will be one of the active participants (assuring you a ringside seat for testing your Koos IS Dupchek theories), I can assure you. Slander has a price Jamie, especially in Civil Court, as I found out positively today from a very professional source. You ARE accountable for what you post on Boards if a definite effort has been made to cause a loss of business and confidence as a byproduct of slander that CAN'T be proven true. Send this email out immediately to your Koos/Dupchak cronies. Aren't they waiting eagerly for the next installment. I must say, they played you like an old banjo!

 

January 13th, 2002 10:33 AM, a few hours after I had posted in the forums that my research indicated that a "major national dealer talking to 'Koos' on the phone and realizing it was Dupcak" was the source of the industry rumors about his identity:

I say, the hell with waiting! Let's go to court ASAP and you can present your proof. Then I'll present Dupcak as MY proof. See you soon.

 

-Richard

January 13th, 2002, 10:34 AM

You're a real POS aren't you?

[Bugaboo-migration]

Did anyone else not pick up the fact that I was being sarcastic with that comment about Bugaboo? If not, here it is now--I WASN'T SERIOUS. And also:

I picked up on your sarcasm.......but I'm here to tell you.......it still stung.......stung bad.......stung like when you're out camping in the woods and you urinate on a bee hive.......and then can't get peety back behind the zippered door in time to escape their wrath........but I digress.

[PovertyRow]

but I digress

 

That's ok, Bug. Always a first time for everything!

[Bugaboo-migration]

I wonder what digress means?

[Foolkiller]

It's tough to get a lot of people to come forward as witnesses in many types of court cases... in the criminal realm its the fear of retribution most of the time (and other types of resolution to crime). A whistle blower in the fraud realm as the fear of being black listed by other companies. How many other companies really want to hire somebody who doesn't honor the agreements they signed. The other problem, in terms of admissibility, is whether their testimony would even be allowed to come in under the terms of the non-disclosure agreement. Although, if it were fraud, basic contract law dictates that you cannot contract for someone to do something illegal. Thus, if fraud were truly occurring, on a level that a DA's office might be interested, the non-disclosure agreement would not bind the employee... but keep in mind that this is MUCH more complicated than the way it sounds because the question of what constitutes actual fraud is very complicated. Assuming you can show actual fraud, then no, a non-disclosure clause will not prevent someone from coming forward to testify... just try to get someone (in any industry) to actually do it. Good luck.

 

As to the specific integrity of cgc... let me say this... I've never submitted any books personally, but I've bought a number of them and seen a great many. I've met and spoke to Mark Hespel a number of times and met Steve Borock once or twice. As someone on another thread pointed out... these guys were solid, stand up guys before cgc... I can't for the life of me figure out why there's so many questions about the integrity of this company. Sure, there might be mistakes, but I see an awful lot of posts questioning whether things are done the way cgc says they are. I have no doubt there's allocation of time with some books more than others, and that's true in EVERY business with allocation of time and energy. However, I believe that cgc is honestly run operation, whether or not you like it in principle is a different story, but that's my belief... call me naive I suppose.

[hammer-migration]

Hey Rudd, This is fine sport. You like making additions and embellishing email quotes, don't you? Seems like in this thread, you started hunting. As though something was sticking in your foul, womanesque craw. That's OK, You want to hunt me, Elmer Rudd? With or without proof, you never let this Dupchak/Koos allegations of yours go for a second, do you, posting on this Forum at least once a day with your unfounded, and criminally mischevious, slanderous theorey? You constantly email others with your unproveable theories to ply your vendetta. What is this, over 100 times now, still, with admittedly, no proof? What a sad POS you are little woman. Then, whenever you can drag yourself away from ME as a subject of your emails and posts, what is the substance? You pontificate on comics, facts that you wouldn't have a CLUE about if you didn't hear it from ME. Why not print some of the hundreds of QUESTION and answer emails you sent me that I responded to, BEFORE you started your campaign of criminal mischeif against me? 95% of your posts pertaining to comics, which by comparison against the posts you theorize about ME, is minimal at best, contain excerpts from my emails, the ANSWERS to your questions, when you were posing as a "friend", instead of a lying POS. The funniest thing is when I deliberately told you something COMPLETELY INCORRECT, just for fun, then I'd see you post on the Forum the EXACT SAME SPIKE, the same error I divulged to you, almost word for word, as if YOU had a mind.

I'd love to see YOU up on a cross, Rudd. I'd personally volunteer to hammer the spikes through your forked tongue, then spraypaint the whole crucifix YELLOW, a very fitting color for you. .

 

[Bugaboo-migration]