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If you don’t like the auction results...SUE!
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Started by Junkdrawer,

18 posts in this topic

comix4fun

comix4fun

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, The Voord said:

Oh, no, the brothers have a sister!  :bigsmile:

Her believing that her artwork was worth triple what the rest of the market did is better proof than any DNA test. 

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jqa3

jqa3

Posted
Posted

Interesting.  Not sure how lucky she'll be. 

I clicked around after reading and found this somewhat related story:

 

Christie’s Sold This Swiss Dealer a Painting Likely Looted by the Nazis. Now He Wants His Money Back

"How long after a sale—and under what circumstances—is a buyer entitled to a refund?

That’s the question that has surfaced in a dispute between a Swiss art dealer and Christie’s

auction house. The dealer, Alain Dreyfus, wants Christie’s to pay him back for a painting he

bought in 2008 that later was determined to have been looted by the Nazis during World War II."

 

https://news.artnet.com/art-world/christies-nazi-restitution-1295141

 

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comix4fun

comix4fun

Posted
Posted
33 minutes ago, jqa3 said:

Interesting.  Not sure how lucky she'll be. 

I clicked around after reading and found this somewhat related story:

 

Christie’s Sold This Swiss Dealer a Painting Likely Looted by the Nazis. Now He Wants His Money Back

"How long after a sale—and under what circumstances—is a buyer entitled to a refund?

That’s the question that has surfaced in a dispute between a Swiss art dealer and Christie’s

auction house. The dealer, Alain Dreyfus, wants Christie’s to pay him back for a painting he

bought in 2008 that later was determined to have been looted by the Nazis during World War II."

 

https://news.artnet.com/art-world/christies-nazi-restitution-1295141

 

Whatever the time limit is, I believe Godwin's Rules of Auction Etiquette add a quadruple multiplier to it when Nazi's are involved 

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ESeffinga

ESeffinga

Posted
Posted (edited)

It's interesting, as I had a much more mixed reaction to the article than most. Did I miss something in it? I dunno.

I certainly think she's barking up the wrong tree by thinking her painting should have brought an equal value to the single highest selling piece of Baquiat's art. That seems to be the sentiment most ar expressing here. The part I don't fault her for, is it definitely sounds like her father was intentionally sabotaging the auction by trying to cast legal doubt on it's ownership right before the auction took place. Effectively scaring away buyers. I mean, who wants to buy a piece where there's a legal ownership cloud hanging over it. Especially at these multi-million dollar prices? Hell, folks on here have moaned about what might happen to prices on Kirby's art after his family started winning lawsuits. Or BWS started asking for a chunk of future proceeds from the sale of his artwork. Those cases are totally different to this one, and I realize that. But in this case the father had NO claim. Zero. He totally timed and filed the suit knowing up front there was no chance of winning, and the only possible explanation was the sabotage he had already verbalized to his daughter. It was an out of spite -move.

So yeah, mixed feelings. I'm not gonna rank her up there with Donnelly Bros. But by all means...

Edited by ESeffinga
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ESeffinga

ESeffinga

Posted
Posted
12 hours ago, comix4fun said:

Whatever the time limit is, I believe Godwin's Rules of Auction Etiquette add a quadruple multiplier to it when Nazi's are involved 

I read this one too. I was curious to see the list of art they mentioned as stolen but available on the web, but there wasn't a link to it that I spotted, and a search didn't get me to the actual list, just other articles about it's existence. Obviously will never swim in those deep $$$ waters anyway, I'm simply curious if any works I am familiar with are on it. I've watched a lot of documentaries about the art stolen in WWII, and about the Monuments Men, the Bloch Bauer case, how the Nazis divvied up what they took, etc. It's frightening stuff.

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Kwan Chang

Kwan Chang

Posted
Posted
2 hours ago, ESeffinga said:

.....................

So yeah, mixed feelings. I'm not gonna rank her up there with Donnelly Bros. But by all means...................................

 

ha ha ha.  leave it to eric to bring locgic to a conversation.  (hi sara !)

 

so what are you saying ?  who's worse ?

 

sabotage or not........why was the pre auction estimate at only 30 mil ?

 

 

the article went on to say.........................

" The current record for a Basquiat painting at auction is $110.5 million set at Sotheby’s last May. "

so just because a BWS or KIRBY piece sold 20,000...............all bws and kirby pieces will sell for that ??  no way.  there was a reason the auction house estimated it at 30M

 

did the actions of the father hurt the final hammer price ?  of course it did.

 

 

but i think most people were just correlating the last name and thought it was funny :)

 

see ya !

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ESeffinga

ESeffinga

Posted
Posted

Yer prolly right. I’m reading more into it than just past the names and article title.

One of those things that happens so early in the AM. :blush:

As for the auction estimate, call me crazy, but I thought the typical practice with those was to set them just under what they really hope to get, in the hopes of spurring interest in folks that think/know it should actually be higher. 

So if I’ve got a 50k Kirby piece and I estimate it to sell in the 35-44k range, people seeing that who aren’t so hardcore as some here who truly know that market, will decide to jump in because they see a bit of a deal there.

Ive long assum d most auction estimates were sandbagging the market a bit. Which is why it’s so disappointing For pieces that do t hit the estimate.

Oram I giving the auction houses too much credit here?

... and I’ll tell S. you said hey!

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Kwan Chang

Kwan Chang

Posted
Posted
11 hours ago, ESeffinga said:

Yer prolly right. I’m reading more into it than just past the names and article title.

One of those things that happens so early in the AM. :blush:

As for the auction estimate, call me crazy, but I thought the typical practice with those was to set them just under what they really hope to get, in the hopes of spurring interest in folks that think/know it should actually be higher. 

So if I’ve got a 50k Kirby piece and I estimate it to sell in the 35-44k range, people seeing that who aren’t so hardcore as some here who truly know that market, will decide to jump in because they see a bit of a deal there.

Ive long assum d most auction estimates were sandbagging the market a bit. Which is why it’s so disappointing For pieces that do t hit the estimate.

Oram I giving the auction houses too much credit here?

... and I’ll tell S. you said hey!

well if the auction estimate is 30mil.  cool.  but over 100mil ?  thats a huge discrepancy

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ESeffinga

ESeffinga

Posted
Posted
23 hours ago, ESeffinga said:

I certainly think she's barking up the wrong tree by thinking her painting should have brought an equal value to the single highest selling piece of Baquiat's art.

Totally agree, which is why I originally said that. ^^^  :)

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