Has CGC changed stance on unverified sigs? 1 1

[UncleAnwar]

In the past I've seen unverified sigs as blue labels with the note 'name written on cover'.  Of course the grade was hit because of that, but they were still blue labels.

But recently (last few years) I've noticed that unverified sigs are getting green label qualified grades.  I searched and found older threads saying that an unverified sig could in fact get a lower grade blue label.

To clear up the confusion I called CGC today and asked, and I was told that yes an unverified sig would in fact get a green qualified label.  Which sucks because I've got some old silver age keys with sigs that I bought years ago that I wanted to have graded, but no way I'm doing it if they're getting green labels.

Was I informed correctly today?  My guess is yes.  If so, when did this change?

Edited July 27, 2018 by UncleAnwar

[valiantman]

The general rule is that signatures on the cover get green labels, and signatures on the interior get blue labels.  If you've got Silver Age keys with signatures from years ago, that sounds like interior signatures (most of the time)... so those would be blue.

[lou_fine]

22 hours ago, UncleAnwar said:

Was I informed correctly today?  My guess is yes.  If so, when did this change?

Is it possible that they expanded their list of qualified defects for their green labels when they made those major changes to their restoration label system awhile back?

If it is sitting in a green label, should it not be graded without having the unverified signature knocking down the grade?  And if it was sitting in a blue slab, the grade would then be knocked down for the "writing" defect.

At least that's my take on the use of green labels vis-vis the grading of these defects.  

[VintageComics]

On 7/27/2018 at 3:00 PM, UncleAnwar said:

In the past I've seen unverified sigs as blue labels with the note 'name written on cover'.  Of course the grade was hit because of that, but they were still blue labels.

But recently (last few years) I've noticed that unverified sigs are getting green label qualified grades.  I searched and found older threads saying that an unverified sig could in fact get a lower grade blue label.

To clear up the confusion I called CGC today and asked, and I was told that yes an unverified sig would in fact get a green qualified label.  Which sucks because I've got some old silver age keys with sigs that I bought years ago that I wanted to have graded, but no way I'm doing it if they're getting green labels.

Was I informed correctly today?  My guess is yes.  If so, when did this change?

 

23 hours ago, valiantman said:

The general rule is that signatures on the cover get green labels, and signatures on the interior get blue labels.  If you've got Silver Age keys with signatures from years ago, that sounds like interior signatures (most of the time)... so those would be blue.

Correct.

And I think it depends on the grade for cover sigs. High grade books will get downgraded for cover sigs that are not witnessed and the sig is treated as a writing defect. So for example, a NM book with writing will either get downgraded (my guess is VF range) or placed into a Green / Qualified label. As far as I know this has always been CGC's policy.

If the book is not high grade and the cover sig doesn't affect the grade then they'll just place it in a blue label and notate the writing.

Interior sigs to my knowledge don't affect the grade (at least not until you get into the 9.8+ range by my guestimation)

Edited July 28, 2018 by VintageComics

[UncleAnwar]

Ok thanks guys.  It's a couple cover sigs btw. 

I get that CGC won't give it a yellow label of course, but seems kind of silly that an owner is almost being "punished" for having an unverified sig these days.  An unverified sig to me should be a "neutral", ie a blue label with the "name written on cover" note, vs a detraction.  A few years ago I bought a FF1 blue label book with an unverified sig actually, and it was very low grade (.5).  So I'm not sure that the grade is necessarily the determining factor, I think that CGC just changed their stance on unverified sigs.

Which is kind of unfair to collectors who have books that were signed before the signature process became as structured/monetized as it is today. It was very common in the 90s era (and prior) for Stan to sign books without CGC witnessing and grading.  Of course that's much more rare now I believe.

I'd much rather have a slightly lower grade blue label than a green.  Maybe different collectors view it differently, but in my mind a green label isn't even worth having.  I'd rather just have the book raw at that point. 

Thanks again!

Edited July 29, 2018 by UncleAnwar

[VintageComics]

28 minutes ago, UncleAnwar said:

Ok thanks guys.  It's a couple cover sigs btw. 

I get that CGC won't give it a yellow label of course, but seems kind of silly that an owner is almost being "punished" for having an unverified sig these days.  An unverified sig to me should be a "neutral", ie a blue label with the "name written on cover" note, vs a detraction.  A few years ago I bought a FF1 blue label book with an unverified sig actually, and it was very low grade (.5).  So I'm not sure that the grade is necessarily the determining factor, I think that CGC just changed their stance on unverified sigs.

Which is kind of unfair to collectors who have books that were signed before the signature process became as structured/monetized as it is today. It was very common in the 90s era (and prior) for Stan to sign books without CGC witnessing and grading.  Of course that's much more rare now I believe.

I'd much rather have a slightly lower grade blue label than a green.  Maybe different collectors view it differently, but in my mind a green label isn't even worth having.  I'd rather just have the book raw at that point. 

Thanks again!

A green label tells you what the grade of the book is without the defect (or in this case an unwitnessed sig)

Personally, I think CGC should put both the blue label grade and the green label grade on a green label book (and I have felt this way for as long as I can remember).

[Bomber-Bob]

22 minutes ago, UncleAnwar said:

Which is kind of unfair to collectors who have books that were signed before the signature process became as structured/monetized as it is today. It was very common in the 90s era (and prior) for Stan to sign books without CGC witnessing and grading.  Of course that's much more rare now I believe.

I'd much rather have a slightly lower grade blue label than a green.  Maybe different collectors view it differently, but in my mind a green label isn't even worth having.  I'd rather just have the book raw at that point. 

Thanks again!

While I understand your viewpoint, I just don't see how CGC can maintain the integrity of their SS service and still grandfather in sigs on old books. The Yellow Label means a CGC witness was present when the book was signed. By definition, how can they accept your old signatures ? My only suggestion is to not submit books with old signatures.

[Parabellum]

I hope CGC never goes down the “authenticated signature” road like the other companies.  

[UncleAnwar]

On 7/28/2018 at 9:41 PM, Bomber-Bob said:

While I understand your viewpoint, I just don't see how CGC can maintain the integrity of their SS service and still grandfather in sigs on old books. The Yellow Label means a CGC witness was present when the book was signed. By definition, how can they accept your old signatures ? My only suggestion is to not submit books with old signatures.

Right, that's why i was saying that of course I would never expect them to give it a yellow label.  No way should they get in the business of trying to verify unwitnessed signatures.

On 7/28/2018 at 9:11 PM, UncleAnwar said:

I get that CGC won't give it a yellow label of course, but seems kind of silly that an owner is almost being "punished" for having an unverified sig these days

But,if a book has the name "stan lee" signed on the cover I would prefer that cgc simply ignores the signature.  I agree that it shouldn't count as a "signed book" (so no yellow label), but it also shouldn't be a detraction (green label).  It should be neither a positive or a negative, it should just be a blue label.

Obviously there's a limit there, if the signature is big enough, leaves indentations, etc then it should be bumped down but still receive a blue label. Just like they used to do in the past.

I don't think I'm talking crazy here, because CGC themselves used to do exactly what I'm talking about. I just wish they'd go back to that vs the apparent new policy, that's all.

 

 

[Lazyboy]

28 minutes ago, UncleAnwar said:

But,if a book has the name "stan lee" signed on the cover I would prefer that cgc simply ignores the signature.

That's exactly what the green label means.