Should I CGC key books I know are restored, or should I just sell them while disclosing that they've been restored? 0

[oldrover]

9 hours ago, The Lions Den said:

For me, eBay is no longer my first choice for selling books with significant value (like your Hulk #1, for example).

They tend to favor the buyer, not the seller----even when the seller has excellent feedback and the buyer doesn't.

What IS your first choice? Heritage?

[zzutak]

On 8/28/2018 at 4:29 AM, oldrover said:

I'm not a great grader and CGC is very strict. For my first CGC submission a few weeks back, I sent in three ... books I thought were VG, FN and FN (ASM5, FF48, FF52). They came back VG-, VG+, and VG/FN.  If I sent in one of these ... books ... thinking it was a VF, and it came back FN, that would be a bummer.

You might want to reflect on this conclusion a bit more.  After your initial disappointment, as an honorable human being, wouldn't you be relieved that your decision to certify will enable you to accurately represent your goods to prospective buyers?  Your first CGC submission has put you on notice that your your personal grading standards are too lax by as much as three grade increments.  Not good.

Far too much talk in this thread about maximizing profit, and far too little focus on the consequences of imprudent choices on our immortal souls. 

[oldrover]

2 minutes ago, zzutak said:

You might want to reflect on this conclusion a bit more.  After your initial disappointment, as an honorable human being, wouldn't you be relieved that your decision to certify will enable you to accurately represent your goods to prospective buyers?  Your first CGC submission has put you on notice that your your personal grading standards are too lax by as much as three grade increments.  Not good.

Far too much talk in this thread about maximizing profit, and far too little focus on the consequences of imprudent choices on our immortal souls. 

If you continued reading, you saw that I wanted to represent accurately. Just trying to figure out which is best.

And I bought these comics without CGC labels... and I've been quite satisfied with them... and I knew they were restored. As of course I would tell anyone who had an interest in buying them.

I'm not obligated to CGC these. Just like if a seller sells his home, he's not obligated to pay for the home inspection. But like a home seller, I must disclose any and all issues I know about.

Which I would.

Thanks for your post.

[Bomber-Bob]

1 hour ago, oldrover said:

If you continued reading, you saw that I wanted to represent accurately. Just trying to figure out which is best.

And I bought these comics without CGC labels... and I've been quite satisfied with them... and I knew they were restored. As of course I would tell anyone who had an interest in buying them.

I'm not obligated to CGC these. Just like if a seller sells his home, he's not obligated to pay for the home inspection. But like a home seller, I must disclose any and all issues I know about.

Which I would.

Thanks for your post.

Interesting that you bought these books raw knowing they were restored, that's really rolling the dice. Since you know these books are restored, I do think the 'morally' correct thing to do is to get them graded, regardless of the financials. My biggest reason for saying this is you probably don't know the extent and degree of restoration, only that they are restored. A buyer should be given all the facts and I suspect most buyers would submit the book themselves and then come back at you for missing facts. In my experience, it is rare to find a book 'slightly' restored. Usually, if the person applied a little Color Touch, he does not stop there. The worst resto is trimming. Very difficult to ascertain, especially only from pics.  A book with a little CT is desirable and will sell for a good price, however, a book with a little CT and trimming is not desirable and will sell for substantially less. Listing a raw, restored book with no info other than lots of pics is,IMO, is not right. So, in light of these new facts, in answering your original question, yes, you should submit these books.

[The Lions Den]

1 hour ago, oldrover said:

What IS your first choice? Heritage?

Comiclink has been very good to work with, but I sell primarily Silver and Bronze Age books.

I've heard that Heritage is better for Golden Age books, but I've never personally dealt with them.

 

 

[oldrover]

11 minutes ago, Bomber-Bob said:

Listing a raw, restored book with no info other than lots of pics is,IMO, is not right.

I did not say 'no info'. I said I would disclose that I have been told they are restored, and that I do not know what the extent is. Also, in light of this, I would offer anyone who purchased one and upon examination wasn't satisfied a money back guarantee.

EDIT: That's what I do on my comic sales too. As mentioned above, I am not 100% confident in my grading, so I try to undershoot. But if the buyer's unsatisfied, I refund money no questions asked.

Edited August 30, 2018 by oldrover
tie in to earlier comment about grading

[Bomber-Bob]

1 minute ago, oldrover said:

I did not say 'no info'. I said I would disclose that I have been told they are restored, and that I do not know what the extent is. Also, in light of this, I would offer anyone who purchased one and upon examination wasn't satisfied a money back guarantee.

I think this tactic of simply saying the book is restored without professional analysis is not much better than a Buyer Beware approach. Keep in mind that you approached us on this topic, you asked, and I am saying the right thing to do is to submit the books. Sure, the money back guarantee is fine but it gives me the impression that you are trying to slip something past the buyer. I don't like it. Sorry. Knowing the books are restored, you should get them graded.

[oldrover]

11 minutes ago, Bomber-Bob said:

I think this tactic of simply saying the book is restored without professional analysis is not much better than a Buyer Beware approach. Keep in mind that you approached us on this topic, you asked, and I am saying the right thing to do is to submit the books. Sure, the money back guarantee is fine but it gives me the impression that you are trying to slip something past the buyer. I don't like it. Sorry. Knowing the books are restored, you should get them graded.

I did ask. I'm glad I did too! Lots of good info and suggestions.

However, I vehemently disagree with your assertion that I am being dishonest in any way. I'd say I'm being the OPPOSITE of that, and just trying to figure out the best way to do so. And again, I don't necessarily disagree that I should get these CGC'd, only that I am not required to do so, as long as I disclose everything I can and offer recourse to anyone dissatisfied.     

 

 

[Dick Pontoon]

Heritage and Clink both have their pros and cons. Heritage seems to have more predictable results and I believe garners more eyes. There are also reputable dealers who will sell books on consignment. I sell on ebay regularly, but for books that would be going for thousands of dollars each I’d probably lean towards auction house or consignment. You could also try the Sales Forum here on the boards.

[Ze-man]

4 hours ago, oldrover said:

I did not say 'no info'. I said I would disclose that I have been told they are restored, and that I do not know what the extent is. Also, in light of this, I would offer anyone who purchased one and upon examination wasn't satisfied a money back guarantee.

EDIT: That's what I do on my comic sales too. As mentioned above, I am not 100% confident in my grading, so I try to undershoot. But if the buyer's unsatisfied, I refund money no questions asked.

The fact that you do not know the extent of the restoration will not only put off many buyers from bidding, it will also hurt your bottom line for those that do bid.  If a book only has Slight CT done, buyers will pay more because the book is "closer to original" when compared to books with Extensive work done.   People want Original ,not Frankenbooks.   Unless the book is a HUGE key, and sooo expensive that Ext. restored is the only price point many collectors can afford.   So if you have several keys with resto, I would send them in to be graded.  This will not only allow you to represent the book accurately when listing them, but net better results at auction 

Edited August 30, 2018 by Ze-man
typos!!

[oldrover]

42 minutes ago, Ze-man said:

The fact that you do not know the extent of the restoration will not only put off many buyers from bidding, it will also hurt your bottom line for those that do bid.  If a book only has Slight CT done, buyers will pay more because the book is "closer to original" when compared to books with Extensive work done.   People want Original , not Frankenbooks.   Unless the book is a HUGE key book, and soo expensive that Ext restored is the only price point many collectors can afford.   So if you have several keys with resto, I would send them in to be graded.  This will allow you to represent the book accurately when listing them, which will gain you better results at auction 

LOL at "Frankenbooks"! :-)

Yeah, the more I think about it, the more I agree with that. The unslabbed ones I can also have analyzed to see if it's worth removing the restoration. My AF15 I'm pretty sure is extensive, but hey, it will look gorgeous in a slab, and there will be no question to me or others as to the book's condition.

I actually talked to CGC today about the already-slabbed Hulk 1 book (from the Nicholas Cage collection... heh), and potentially removing the slight professional color touch from that. They said that if their guys can't remove the restoration without significantly damaging the book, then basically all I'm out is the re-slabbing and shipping, which seems reasonable. And even with that, it's still a valuable book. 

[Dick Pontoon]

Be careful with restoration removal. If the removal will involve scraping large or lengthy areas you might kill the eye appeal. here’s a recent related thread:

 

https://www.cgccomics.com/boards/topic/437836-did-i-do-the-right-thing-with-my-original-ff1/

 

 

[oldrover]

22 minutes ago, Pontoon said:

Be careful with restoration removal. If the removal will involve scraping large or lengthy areas you might kill the eye appeal. here’s a recent related thread:

 

https://www.cgccomics.com/boards/topic/437836-did-i-do-the-right-thing-with-my-original-ff1/

 

 

Yeah, I saw that. The grade worked out... but eye appeal really took a hit, and a lot of people buy for that.

[Bomber-Bob]

4 hours ago, Pontoon said:

Be careful with restoration removal. If the removal will involve scraping large or lengthy areas you might kill the eye appeal. here’s a recent related thread:

 

https://www.cgccomics.com/boards/topic/437836-did-i-do-the-right-thing-with-my-original-ff1/

 

 

He commented in the thread. He loves it and is going to 'follow his lead' with his books. Can't wait for another ruined book to hit the market. More money, more money.

[oldrover]

53 minutes ago, Bomber-Bob said:

He commented in the thread. He loves it and is going to 'follow his lead' with his books. Can't wait for another ruined book to hit the market. More money, more money.

I bought these as an investment. Sure, I loved the books as a kid. But now I'm looking to maximize. I understand if not everyone agrees with that. And I'm only considering it where it makes sense. See my Avengers 4 thread.