the most expensive silver age comicbook by grade?

[skybolt]

I wish someone would create a website showcasing scans of the top 100 or 200 holy grails in our industry. I realize that some of the best copies are still in private collections, and won't be seen for many years, but it would be awesome to stare at and admire the awesome books that do exist.

[Silver Surfer]

I can't see the X-Men #1 in the top 5 not with the Hulk #1 and TOS#39 still unaccounted for.

[rob_react]

I wish someone would create a website showcasing scans of the top 100 or 200 holy grails in our industry. I realize that some of the best copies are still in private collections, and won't be seen for many years, but it would be awesome to stare at and admire the awesome books that do exist.

 

I have scans or links up for every book that I've been able to track down a scan of... Images of a lot of the books are just unavailable.

 

Speaking of missing scans, does anyone recall any of the books I have without scans being featured in CBM? I don't have a full collection of CBM, so I've never been able to go through them to see if there are any scans I could take.

[rob_react]

I can't see the X-Men #1 in the top 5 not with the Hulk #1 and TOS#39 still unaccounted for.

 

Really? A 9.6 X-Men #1 sells for six figures (it's happened twice.) To me, even the highest graded TOS 39 would struggle to sell for six figures (which is why I don't have it on the list.) But you still want to put it in ahead of the 9.8 X-Men #1?

 

The 9.4 Hulk #1 is much closer, but I still don't think it's top five. I think it could rank anywhere from 5th (behind the above three + the 9.8 ASM #1) to about 9th (behind those + the two X-Men #1s and the two stronger AF15s.)

[tth2]

I can't see the X-Men #1 in the top 5 not with the Hulk #1 and TOS#39 still unaccounted for.

 

Really? A 9.6 X-Men #1 sells for six figures (it's happened twice.) To me, even the highest graded TOS 39 would struggle to sell for six figures (which is why I don't have it on the list.) But you still want to put it in ahead of the 9.8 X-Men #1?

 

The 9.4 Hulk #1 is much closer, but I still don't think it's top five. I think it could rank anywhere from 5th (behind the above three + the 9.8 ASM #1) to about 9th (behind those + the two X-Men #1s and the two stronger AF15s.)

I agree with Rob that the 9.6 TOS 39 wouldn`t even break $100K. The 9.4 Hulk 1 is more interesting, as it would definitely break $100K but the question is how high would a buyer be willing to pay for it? $125K? $150K?

[rob_react]

The 9.4 Hulk 1 is more interesting, as it would definitely break $100K but the question is how high would a buyer be willing to pay for it? $125K? $150K?

 

With the Bethlehem sale (now years ago) at 52,000 and the recent comiclink sales (CGC 9.2 $82,500, CGC 9.0 $50,000 CGC 8.5 $36,000) I think it's "value" is somewhere around the $150,000 mark. Whether it comes in north (in my mind, potentially well-north since it's a tougher book than any or the major Marvel keys) or south of that number is where I have a hard time ranking it.

 

Edited to fix a typo with the price. Someone has probably already corrected me, but I just got back from a bike ride and saw my error...

[Silver Surfer]

Well the Hulk #1 for sure should be ahead of the X-Men simply because its so rare and at the end of the day is a much more well know and enduring Marvel commodity than the original X-Men. TOS is a personal favorite of mine and Doug does have it listed at $125,000. I'm a little surpised that there have no been any bids on it but I was also surprised to see the X-Men #1 sell for over $100,000. Heck I think the Avengers #1 has more importance in the overall scheme of things.

[rob_react]

Well the Hulk #1 for sure should be ahead of the X-Men simply because its so rare and at the end of the day is a much more well know and enduring Marvel commodity than the original X-Men.

 

I don't think it's at all that cut and dried. The second best X-Men #1s sold for $100,000+, the second best Hulk #1 sold for $82,000. Actual sales results HAVE to count for a lot when you're looking at these things. I personally agree with you to a point about the Hulk #1, but what I think doesn't really matter when compared to what the market thinks.

 

 

TOS is a personal favorite of mine

 

Yeah, but it being a personal favorite of YOURS really doesn't matter when we're talking about this sort of thing. I'd want the Allentown Detective #27 more than I'd want the Church Action #1, that doesn't mean when I finally get down to ranking the $100,000 Club books by value I'll slot the Bat-book at #1. We won't even go into the dozens of books that I'd prefer over a high grade AF 15 (without regard to resale, of course)...

 

and Doug does have it listed at $125,000. I'm a little surpised that there have no been any bids on it

 

It's a Vault book. His Vault prices are very aggressive His ASM #1 is listed at 1.75x the GPA average. Nothing wrong with that of course, it's just that the Vault asking price isn't the first place I look to discern a book's value.

 

but I was also surprised to see the X-Men #1 sell for over $100,000.

 

Twice.

 

Heck I think the Avengers #1 has more importance in the overall scheme of things.

 

We're not talking about "importance," we're talking about $$ value. Avengers #1 is outside of the scope of this discussion.

[tth2]

Heck I think the Avengers #1 has more importance in the overall scheme of things.

 

We're not talking about "importance," we're talking about $$ value. Avengers #1 is outside of the scope of this discussion.

Even in 9.8, Avengers #1 would not be a 6-figure book.

[Larryw7]

Digressing a bit, I think the reason the Sotheby crowd went wild over the WM AF 15 was because it was never read. I distinctly remember Jerry Weist writing(I think in an old CBM) that the cover made that "pop" sound that you sometimes hear when you open an unread book. That probably impressed that crowd greatly.

 

And looking at those scans, there is no way that's a 9.4. The books that Burntboy submitted that received 8.0's and 8.5's were nicer than that.

[tth2]

Digressing a bit, I think the reason the Sotheby crowd went wild over the WM AF 15 was because it was never read. I distinctly remember Jerry Weist writing(I think in an old CBM) that the cover made that "pop" sound that you sometimes hear when you open an unread book. That probably impressed that crowd greatly.

Also, I think at the time that White Mountain was the only well-recognized Silver Age pedigree. At the time, it was considered the Mile High of silvers. I can remember plenty of ads from dealers where they wouldn`t even list a grade for a WM book, just that it was WM (and then they would triple or quadruple the price, leading you to presume that the books were all NM/M). Sometimes it really was NM, and lots of times it definitely was not.

[Aman619]

well, wasnt that the MO for all perdigree collections back then? they were all presumed NMs and sold for uniform multiples of guide, like Church books. I saw the WM AF15 in its slab, and it definitely looks shy of 9.4 at first, but the longer I held it and looked it over, its good points began to outweigh its tiny flaws. Its really tight and glossy, and and appears unread, as you guys say. But, overall, it still only seems to be somewhere between 9.2 and 9.4. Ane even Doug who had it for awhile and got to look at it often admitted its probably 9.3ish.

 

Is it possible that CGC thought it was atweener and closer to 9.4? Or were they blinded by the pedigree or the submittor as many 'theorey'ze?

[Kakapo]

I did have a good look at the scan yesterday and it did seem to be something of a 9.2/9.4 tweener. On such an expensive book, I'd always err on the side of caution, because who wants to gain a reputation as an overgrader? Perhaps if it were a $5 book I'd call it NM. So if someone called it a 9.4, okay, fair enough, that's not a major discrepancy (it is in terms of dollars, but that's not the point!).

 

Knowing full well that it was the WM copy, CGC's graders either consciously or subconsciously may have opted for the median grade of that old grading panel.

 

However, there is no excuse whatsoever for the 3 guys who called it 9.8. No matter how long ago it was, and sure, grading gets ever tighter - the book blatantly has defects. I have unread books that are VG...you can't give the book a higher grade (especially calling it Mint) just because it's unread.

[Aman619]

well, back then the concept of a 9.8 had the same generalized level of meaning it does now. Nowadays when we say 9.8, we think of a book with absoluteely NO visible flaws.....and I dont even think numeral grading was very widely used at all. Cant really remember specifically.

[rob_react]

The way I remember it: numerical grading was new, the idea of 9.8 was different AND it was possible for books to ADD points based on exceptional preservation.

 

Aren't there people who were ON that grading commitee on the forums?

 

Not that any of this matters, in the grand scheme of things. Discussing grading standards fro 15 years ago isn't really going to change the world in any perceptible matter. It's kind of interesting, especially since I can look at how my own grading has changed over that time, but it's not exactly high on the list of hot topics...

 

The actual topic of this thread, on the other hand, is the sort of thing I can talk about all day

[Kakapo]

One final word from me on grading, then - the Gerber Marvel Photojournal (published in 1991) says that a fairly graded near mint comic circa 1980 would be no more than a VF by 1991 standards. Which I guess would be a FN+ at best today!

 

So they get tighter and tighter and prices get higher and higher...of course, that can't continue...unless it does...

[Larryw7]

I guess that grading standards are tighter in the truly high grade categories, but I do remember seeing Fine books in the late seventies that would grade much higher today. And some of the slabbed books I see graded as 6.0 would have been Very Good's.

[x101]

I just bought the White mountain AF #15 at heritages auction. It is very nice but I agree with everyone that it is a soft 9.4 but not a 9.2. CGC may have seen enough to lean it into the 9.4 category. All I knowi s that i am never gonna crack it out of the holder to see. it may come to market in 10-15 years. Does anyone know if the 9.8 x-men is up for sale, and or the 9.8 asm #1. I would be interested.

 

x101

[rob_react]

Does anyone know if the 9.8 x-men is up for sale, and or the 9.8 asm #1. I would be interested.

 

There are two X-Men #1s in 9.8. I don't think either is for sale. I know for certain one of them isn't. The ASM #1 9.8 isn't for sale.

[tth2]

Does anyone know if the 9.8 x-men is up for sale, and or the 9.8 asm #1. I would be interested.

 

There are two X-Men #1s in 9.8. I don't think either is for sale. I know for certain one of them isn't. The ASM #1 9.8 isn't for sale.

Well, if enough money is thrown at someone, who knows? Tell you what, x101, I'll help you out by pointing you in the right direction. I don't mind disclosing the following since it's all public info.

 

The Pacific Coast 9.8 X-Men #1 (the "lesser" 9.8) is owned by Doug Schmell, who goes by Capt_Tripps on these boards, so you can PM him or contact him at his website, www.pedigreecomics.com.

 

The Curator 9.8 X-Men #1 and the 9.8 ASM #1 (not pedigreed as far as I know) are both owned by Tom Brulato, who famously does NOT frequent these boards. But I'm sure if you own the WM AF 15 you have the means of tracking him down.

 

Happy hunting!