GAME OF THRONES: HOUSE OF THE DRAGON series (2022) 4 4

[fantastic_four]

On 8/6/2024 at 2:14 PM, kimik said:

I could care less about any of the characters on HotD as none of them have been portrayed as having any good/redeeming qualities.

Wasn't Viserys pretty good?  He held the realm together in peace so long that almost nobody alive has ever seen a war.  I'm also wondering if Alicent has been almost entirely good throughout the show.  She misunderstood her husband ranting about the Song of Ice and Fire in his dementia, but I can't remember her being clearly evil at any point.  I don't recall Lannister being evil either.  Rhaenys, Corlys, and their kids have seemed pretty good as well aside from Coryls's illegitimate kids, one of whom reamed him out during the finale.

I REALLY like Daemon.  He's evil, but I enjoy his cunning and general demeanor.  The actress I've been the most impressed with is the one playing Rhaenyra, I like her a lot--although I'm still not sure about the character.  Her grappling with killing thousands of people to save even more doesn't check out--all she has to do is renounce her claim to the throne and thousands don't have to die.

[Bosco685]

Wow! I did not make that complete connection.

Spoiler

 

 

[fantastic_four]

On 8/6/2024 at 7:08 PM, Bosco685 said:

Wow! I did not make that complete connection.

  Hide contents

 

 

All I noticed was the one from the vision didn't look like any of the white walkers I remembered from Game of Thrones, and I wondered why.  I didn't dwell on it because he could have been one of the ones we didn't see closely, or maybe I just forgot one that looked like the one in the vision.

[fantastic_four]

One thing that's worth noting is that the actor playing the white walker in Daemon's vision isn't Matt Smith, it's someone else in the IMDB credits:

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt27160121/fullcredits

So I don't see any specific indication that the one in his vision is him in the future.  What I was wondering if I'd see when I checked the credits is that the walker isn't listed at all, but nope, it's listed and it's someone besides the actor playing Daemon.

Edited August 7 by fantastic_four

[fantastic_four]

On 8/5/2024 at 5:12 AM, Bosco685 said:

Let's see if Emergency Awesome covers this enough

 

I'm just now watching this, and he says something pretty interesting about the vision that's not a spoiler, it's just something he put together from watching all of the content in GoT and HoD.  He claims that the vision begins with the Three-Eyed Raven because it was established in Game of Thrones that they use the trees Daemon is touching when the vision begins to both see the past and communicate back to the past, so this vision is probably coming from the Three-Eyed Raven in the future.  I would think that if Daemon is getting this from the Three-Eyed Raven then possibly that's also how Aegon the Conqueror gets his vision from his Song of Ice and Fire as well.

Apparently a Child of the Forest skitters away from the tree right before Daemon touches it, which I didn't notice but probably wouldn't have thought anything of because I assumed at the time Daemon was just having another fevered nightmare like all the others he's had this season--but since we now know this was a glimpse of real events I guess that WAS a real Child of the Forest.

The narrator of the video says the trees can ONLY see into the past, so the walker in the vision could be a future Daemon since he's dead by the time the Three-Eyed Raven is born, or it could also be the undead from the previous time they attacked Westeros that caused the Wall to be built thousands of years ago. I bet that's why this is a new actor playing a white walker--this isn't Daemon or a walker we saw in Game of Thrones, this is one from the far past.

Edited August 7 by fantastic_four

[Bosco685]

 

[kimik]

In the end it is the Starks that clean up the Night King and undead mess, not the Targaryens. I guess they did not really need to cross the narrow sea after all……

[Bosco685]

[Bosco685]

So rather than work on that final book many have been waiting on, let's burn up more cycles complaining

 

[Bosco685]

What a way to punch it out creatively in public

House of the Dragon: George R.R. Martin Teases "Toxic" Story Changes in Spoiler-Filled Post

Quote

In a seemingly now-deleted post in his "Not a Blog" personal journal, Martin went down the rabbit hole of discussing the infamous 'Blood & Cheese' sequence from the House of the Dragon Season 2 premiere. He finally addressed the divisive changes to Blood & Cheese's story in House of the Dragon – namely, the removal of a pivotal character from the sequence: King Aegon II and Queen Helaena Targaryen's third and youngest child, Prince Maelor. The show only featured the twins Prince Jaehaerys and Princess Jaehaera, while Blood & Cheese forced Helaena to choose between her male and female child to be the one who lived. In Fire & Blood, it's written that Helaena had to choose between all three of her kids, and chose Maelor to die as he was too young to understand. In a sadistic turn, Blood and Cheese killed Jaehaerys instead, leaving Maelor to live a life knowing that his mother was willing to sacrifice him. 

 

Prince Maelor's arc doesn't get any better later on: (MILD SPOILERS) The boy never made it past the age of three before he, too, was killed during the "Dance of Dragons" Civil War between the Targaryens. In fact, Maelor's death (killed in a mob of commonfolk trying to capture him, while fleeing the war) became a powerful metaphor for just how unforgivably far the war between Queen Rhaenyra's Black and King Aegon II's Greens had gotten. 

 

In his blog post, George R.R. Martin revealed some of his own frustrations with the changes to Blood & Cheese's story, saying "I found myself agreeing with both sides," i.e., agreeing with those critical of the choice to remove Maelor Targaryen from the show. Martin then confirms that Maelor was never going to be a part of HotD: 

 

"Sometime between the initial decision to remove Maelor, a big change was made," Martin wrote. "The prince's birth was no longer just going to be pushed back to season 3.  He was never going to be born at all. The younger son of Aegon and Helaena would never appear."

 

Martin likens cutting Maelor from the show to the "Butterfly Effect," wherein one minor change causes a snowballing effect of many bigger changes down the line. He runs through some MAJOR SPOILERS about the latter part of the Dance of Dragon conflict, pointing out how one of the most brutal and shocking moments of that conflict (Maelor's death at the hands of the mob) is no longer a possibility for House of the Dragon to depict. And judging from his words, George R.R. Martin is nervous (at best) and/or upset (at worst) that there is no certainty when it comes to replacing some bigger themes that come with that side story: 

 

"What will we offer the fans instead, once we've killed these butterflies? I have no idea. I do not recall that Ryan and I ever discussed this, back when he first told me they were pushing back on Aegon's second son. Maelor himself is not essential... but if losing him means we also lose [REDACTED SPOILERSl... that's a considerable loss."

HBO Responds to George R.R. Martin's House of the Dragon Criticism

Quote

Now, in their response, HBO acknowledges the "difficult choices" the series has had to make and expressed confidence in showrunner Ryan Condal and his team going forward.

 

"There are few greater fans of George R.R. Martin and his book Fire & Blood than the creative team on House of the Dragon, both in production and at HBO,' the statement reads (via Variety). "Commonly, when adapting a book for the screen, with its own format and limitations, the showrunner ultimately is required to make difficult choices about the characters and stories the audience will follow. We believe that Ryan Condal and his team have done an extraordinary job and the millions of fans the series has amassed over the first two seasons will continue to enjoy it."

 

In his post, which has now been deleted, Martin outlined that one of his issues with House of the Dragon was the erasure of Aegon and Helaena Targaryen's youngest child, Prince Maelor, whose existence is a major part of the book's version of the Blood & Cheese storyline and has ramifications further along. Martin wrote that when Condal first spoke with him about the plan for Maelor, he came to understand the practical reason for it, but also was assured that the character was merely being postponed.

 

"I did not argue long or with much heat, however. The change weakened the sequence, I felt, but only a bit. And Ryan had what seemed to be practical reasons for it; they did not want to deal with casting another child, especially a two-year old toddler. Kids that young will inevitably slow down production, and there would be budget implications. Budget was already an issue on House of the Dragon, it made sense to save money wherever we could. Moreover, Ryan assured me that we were not losing Prince Maelor, simply postponing him. Queen Helaena could still give birth to him in season three, presumably after getting with child in late season two. That made sense to me, so I withdrew my objections and acquiesced to the change. I still love the episode, and the Blood and Cheese sequence overall. Losing the 'Helaena's Choice' beat did weaken the scene, but not to any great degree."

 

[drotto]

On 8/30/2024 at 11:10 AM, Bosco685 said:

So rather than work on that final book many have been waiting on, let's burn up more cycles complaining

 

Love Game of Thrones, have grown very tired of Martin.  He is a brilliant story teller and writer, but he has one job to write books. The constant excuses for not finishing what should be the pinical of his life's work are just tiring at this point. 

 

Frankly, I suspect he has just grown tired and is board with the series, especially after the mess of GoT season 8.  This explains all the writers block, and apparent lack of motivation. He is now only interested in aspects of the world that have the potential for immediate live action adaptation and monetary gain for him. 

 

There is no way Song of Ice and Fire ever gets finished. 

[WolverineX]

On 9/5/2024 at 9:23 AM, drotto said:

Love Game of Thrones, have grown very tired of Martin.  He is a brilliant story teller and writer, but he has one job to write books. The constant excuses for not finishing what should be the pinical of his life's work are just tiring at this point. 

 

Frankly, I suspect he has just grown tired and is board with the series, especially after the mess of GoT season 8.  This explains all the writers block, and apparent lack of motivation. He is now only interested in aspects of the world that have the potential for immediate live action adaptation and monetary gain for him. 

 

There is no way Song of Ice and Fire ever gets finished. 

Yeah I gave up long ago.... I read GoT in 1998 and waited forever.  He has no credibility.  

[kimik]

His views are reflected in the viewership. I will finish it to the end since I started it, but my wife dropped off a couple of episodes into Season 2 after convincing me to watch it with her. She lacks conviction, I guess.  

[drotto]

 

Oldie but still funny, also really sad this is 12 years old!!!!

[drotto]

On 9/5/2024 at 11:29 AM, kimik said:

His views are reflected in the viewership. I will finish it to the end since I started it, but my wife dropped off a couple of episodes into Season 2 after convincing me to watch it with her. She lacks conviction, I guess.  

Season 2 was ok, still one of the better shows out there, but too much setup and not enough payoff this season.  The dragon battle episode (think it was episode 5) was great however.

[kimik]

On 9/5/2024 at 9:32 AM, drotto said:

Season 2 was ok, still one of the better shows out there, but too much setup and not enough payoff this season.  The dragon battle episode (think it was episode 5) was great however.

That was the only payoff so far in two seasons. In fairness, they are trying to stretch a relatively small amount of source material into a full show which is more difficult to please everyone with. That being said, the pacing so far has been terrible. Maybe it will pick up in Season 3 with more dragon battles, but if dragons are the only reason to watch then the show as a whole is a fail.

[Axelrod]

On 9/5/2024 at 9:23 AM, drotto said:

There is no way Song of Ice and Fire ever gets finished. 

Sadly, this has been known for years.  

Martin has made the (understandable, if annoying) decision that - after finally achieving such an overwhelming success in the later stages of his career -  he is going to enjoy the fruits of his labors and his golden years and not stress about the writing part anymore.  He will get behind the typewriter and maybe plunk out a couple of pages here and there every so often, but he will not chain himself to his desk.  

[drotto]

On 9/5/2024 at 1:23 PM, Axelrod said:

Sadly, this has been known for years.  

Martin has made the (understandable, if annoying) decision that - after finally achieving such an overwhelming success in the later stages of his career -  he is going to enjoy the fruits of his labors and his golden years and not stress about the writing part anymore.  He will get behind the typewriter and maybe plunk out a couple of pages here and there every so often, but he will not chain himself to his desk.  

I think we will see one more book in the series, when they publish whatever he had managed to write for Winds of Winter postumously.

[kimik]

On 9/5/2024 at 11:23 AM, Axelrod said:

Sadly, this has been known for years.  

Martin has made the (understandable, if annoying) decision that - after finally achieving such an overwhelming success in the later stages of his career -  he is going to enjoy the fruits of his labors and his golden years and not stress about the writing part anymore.  He will get behind the typewriter and maybe plunk out a couple of pages here and there every so often, but he will not chain himself to his desk.  

Great move by him IMHO. What good is achieving that success if you cannot enjoy it at his age?

Edited September 6 by kimik

[drotto]

On 9/6/2024 at 6:22 PM, kimik said:

Great move by him IMHO. What good is achieving that success if you cannot enjoy it at his age?

That could be an excuse for the last few years, but it does not explain it's more like 20 years when you consider the delay between books 3 and 4 and then from 4 to 5. Especially, when you remember books 4 and 5 were originally one book. He lost passion for this series even before GoT hit HBO and his success was really a result of the show.