Roy Thomas 1981 Interview: Mad at Marvel! 1 1

[Prince Namor]

Question: What are the longest consecutive running comics for Marvel after the Silver Age (1970-on)?

Conan the Barbarian - 275 (put together by Roy Thomas)

Spectacular Spider-man - 263

Savage Sword of Conan - 235 (put together by Roy Thomas)

Defenders - 152 (put together by Roy Thomas)

Marvel Team-Up - 150 (put together by Roy Thomas)

Power Man and Iron Fist - 125 (put together by Roy Thomas)

What'd I miss?

 

 

 

 

[steveinthecity]

Are you asking for only titles that began at some point after 1970 but during Roy Thomas's tenure? There's a handful that began in the 80's that went 100+ issues.

 

Edit: beginning in 70's you could add MoKF(125 issues), M2-in-1 (100 issues), and Star Wars(107 issues).  Crazy fell short at #94.

Edited March 11, 2020 by steveinthecity
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[Prince Namor]

4 hours ago, steveinthecity said:

Are you asking for only titles that began at some point after 1970 but during Roy Thomas's tenure? There's a handful that began in the 80's that went 100+ issues.

 

Edit: beginning in 70's you could add MoKF(125 issues), M2-in-1 (100 issues), and Star Wars(107 issues).  Crazy fell short at #94.

Yes, I was aware of those... MoKF started with #17, so 109 total issues. But can anyone think of any that started that went for more than the six above? Or 9 above?

 

[Crimebuster]

The Jim Lee X-Men series from 1991 made it to #275, if that counts. 

G.I Joe ran for 155 issues!

X-Factor I think made it to #149.

X-Force made it to issue #129. 

 

Edited March 11, 2020 by Crimebuster

[Prince Namor]

1 hour ago, Crimebuster said:

The Jim Lee X-Men series from 1991 made it to #275, if that counts. 

G.I Joe ran for 155 issues!

X-Factor I think made it to #149.

X-Force made it to issue #129. 

 

Uncanny made it to 275, Jim Lee’s X-men book went to #207...

Impressive, nevertheless, but I guess that mutant mania really lasted a long time. 
 

I completely forgot about GI Joe!

Weird that beside the mutant stuff (mostly established characters), a lot of Marvel’s longest running titles after the Silver Age were adaptations. 

[steveinthecity]

Groo would be one more making it to #120.

After MTU ended, Web Of Spider-Man went to #129.

Edited March 11, 2020 by steveinthecity

[Crimebuster]

32 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

Weird that beside the mutant stuff (mostly established characters), a lot of Marvel’s longest running titles after the Silver Age were adaptations. 

I think in the late 70's, when the creators' rights movement really got going, many creators stopped using their good ideas at Marvel and started saving them for their own use. Why lose the rights to a cool character with work for hire when you could self publish or later go the Image route? I think this is why we haven't seen any real breakout new characters debut from either Marvel or DC since the 90's. 

Even Roy has cited this as a reason why he didn't create a lot of original characters, at least until he was EiC, but rather revamped older properties like Vision. I mean, I think it was also because he's a big nerd fanboy like us, but I've read interviews where he said he didn't want to create new characters he would lose the rights to. 

[RCheli]

1 hour ago, Crimebuster said:

I think in the late 70's, when the creators' rights movement really got going, many creators stopped using their good ideas at Marvel and started saving them for their own use. Why lose the rights to a cool character with work for hire when you could self publish or later go the Image route? I think this is why we haven't seen any real breakout new characters debut from either Marvel or DC since the 90's. 

Even Roy has cited this as a reason why he didn't create a lot of original characters, at least until he was EiC, but rather revamped older properties like Vision. I mean, I think it was also because he's a big nerd fanboy like us, but I've read interviews where he said he didn't want to create new characters he would lose the rights to. 

I agree to a point, but how many great characters were created outside of Marvel/DC by former company regulars? Doug Moench had Sabre. Grell had Jon Sable. Marshal Rogers had Cap'n Quick and a Foozle. Can you count Starlin and Dreadstar (which pretty much was Captain Marvel)? Roy Thomas had Blue Bolt and Lightning (was that was it was called?), but who else did he create? Steve Gerber had Nevada, which I liked, but that was decades after his hey-day. Some creators need to have a bedrock of an already-created character or of an editor with a heavy hand in reigning everything in.

[namisgr]

5 hours ago, Chuck Gower said:

Yes, I was aware of those... MoKF started with #17, so 109 total issues. But can anyone think of any that started that went for more than the six above? Or 9 above?

 

MoKF started with #15 and the run included 4 giant-size issues and 1 annual for a grand total of 116 issues.  But still short of 125.

Back in the mid-'70s Roy Thomas certainly seemed like the heir apparent to Stan as editor of the entire Marvel comics line, and when I came back to comic book reading in 1981 I was surprised and more than a little disappointed to find that he wasn't.  Thanks for your posts here that help explain how the succession went at Marvel during those two decades.

 

Edited March 11, 2020 by namisgr

[Prince Namor]

19 hours ago, RCheli said:

I agree to a point, but how many great characters were created outside of Marvel/DC by former company regulars? Doug Moench had Sabre. Grell had Jon Sable. Marshal Rogers had Cap'n Quick and a Foozle. Can you count Starlin and Dreadstar (which pretty much was Captain Marvel)? Roy Thomas had Blue Bolt and Lightning (was that was it was called?), but who else did he create? Steve Gerber had Nevada, which I liked, but that was decades after his hey-day. Some creators need to have a bedrock of an already-created character or of an editor with a heavy hand in reigning everything in.

Once again, depends upon perspective.

Many comic book readers see the Marvel and DC mainstream comics as simplified drivel. Protected properties that continuously repeat their 5-6 storylines over and over. NOTHING is going to happen of consequence. Those 'properties' are safe. Editorial protects it.

One of the reasons Walking Dead made as much of an impact as it did was because the characters truly WERE in danger - a character you liked could actually get killed and no longer be a part of that universe - something mainstream comics can't normally do.

By freeing creators form the constraints of editorial dogma, the artform has a chance to expand and grow and be creative. It's not the same freaking thing over and over and over again. For some people - they NEED to be told "This is the greatest story ever told!" or this is "The World's Greatest Comic Magazine!". Others, who appreciate the true artform of sequential art can enjoy, as an example, Jack Kirby's New God's, without the fancy hard sell. To THEM, it holds all the same excitement within the ART.

[Ken Aldred]

13 minutes ago, Chuck Gower said:

 

Many comic book readers see the Marvel and DC mainstream comics as simplified drivel. Protected properties that continuously repeat their 5-6 storylines over and over. NOTHING is going to happen of consequence. Those 'properties' are safe. Editorial protects it.

One of the reasons Walking Dead made as much of an impact as it did was because the characters truly WERE in danger - a character you liked could actually get killed and no longer be a part of that universe - something mainstream comics can't normally do.

By freeing creators form the constraints of editorial dogma, the artform has a chance to expand and grow and be creative.

Possibly why many A-list creators who've worked for Marvel and DC do more interesting stuff over at Image Comics.

It's not just Kirkman and Walking Dead.

Edited March 12, 2020 by Ken Aldred

[NoMan]

thank  you

[NoMan]

On 3/10/2020 at 6:26 AM, Chuck Gower said:

I guess it depends on perspective.

Marvel was already the #1 publisher when Shooter took over, for almost 10 years. Most of that period before Shooter, we call the early days of the Bronze Age and a great deal of that was run by Roy Thomas. Under Roy we got his and Gil Kane's Warlock, the New Uncanny X-Men (including Phoenix), Starlin's Captain Marvel and Warlock, Starlin and then Zeck's Master of Kung Fu, Man-Thing, Wolverine, Ghost Rider, Ultron, Luke Cage, the Kree-Skrull War, the Cat, Tigra and Ms. Marvel, Nova, the Curtis Magazines and more...

Yeah, I'm no fan of his Amazing Spider-man run, but he did co-create Morbius too...

Roy Thomas was an artists' editor. He celebrated creativity.

Shooter on the other hand rejected the idea of individual creativity, by placing the importance on timely production and assembly line product. He alienated legendary talent and pushed them out. Al Milgrom was his workhorse. He takes credit for Miller (who eventually rejected him and left), Bryne (who was already AT Marvel) and Simonson (who was already ON Thor), but he also brought us Dazzler (ugh), NFL SuperPro (duh), and the most grotesque fan boy drivel ever created: Secret Wars. 

Oh and I almost forgot: the 'New Universe'. Or at least I tried to forget.

Shooter destroyed the newsstand model by helping to usher in the direct market, slowly eliminating the new readers that had built the readership over the years (we're still feeling the effects of that today). He fought Kirby on his artwork and refused the idea of sales incentives for creators and residuals and then tried to take credit for pushing for those things after DC already led the way with it. 

He may, quite possibly be, the most disliked 'pro' in the history of comics. 

I have my issues with Roy Thomas, but he was a quality writer, and a quality editor... Jim Shooter was a corporate goon, a gloryhound and big fat liar.

you don't happen to have any kind of Comics Journal (or the like) article, interview or whatever about Miller and this, or Shooter and this and if you did, would you be kindly willing to post it? I like Miller a lot and have not heard this (not doubting you but back in the daysI just read the comics and not all the behind-the-scenes drama) and would love to know more.

[shadroch]

23 hours ago, namisgr said:

MoKF started with #15 and the run included 4 giant-size issues and 1 annual for a grand total of 116 issues.  But still short of 125.

Back in the mid-'70s Roy Thomas certainly seemed like the heir apparent to Stan as editor of the entire Marvel comics line, and when I came back to comic book reading in 1981 I was surprised and more than a little disappointed to find that he wasn't.  Thanks for your posts here that help explain how the succession went at Marvel during those two decades.

 

Its amazing that a no talent hack like Stan was able to ramrod Marvel all those years, yet the more talented people who followed couldn't hold his jockstrap.

[Ken Aldred]

I think that Thomas was a talented writer but all too prolific, and quantity diluting quality to a degree.

 

Edited March 12, 2020 by Ken Aldred