THE_BEYONDER Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 29 minutes ago, William-James88 said: The best artist of that era is Brian Bolland. I also have a real soft spot for Sienkewicz. Perez and Byrne are good but they are very much the meat and potatoes kind, not offering a truly distinctive style. Perez could have done X-Men and Byrne could have done Teen Titans and I think the world of comics would still be pretty much the same. Yeah....no. If Byrne wasn’t on X-men, Wolverine would have been written out of the book. Juno Beach 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William-James88 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 2 hours ago, Jeffro. said: Oh c'mon. Both Perez and Byrne had distinctive styles. That's just wrong on all levels. There was no one else drawing like them. To each their own Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
500Club Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 On 5/31/2020 at 12:33 PM, jjonahjameson11 said: On 5/30/2020 at 7:27 AM, Dr Zen said: Byrne is the greatest writer/artist of the era. But since we are just talking about art: Perez Really? I would easily take Miller over Byrne as the greatest writer/artist of that era. By far. I can neither endorse this or argue with it. Miller's output was so sparse. When he did produce though, things like his core DD run, his follow-up 'Born Again', The Dark Knight Returns, and Batman: Year One were magnificent. Ask Miller to do a 60 issue run like Byrne did on FF, though, and we'd see if he could provide that consistent level of excellence. Ken Aldred and THE_BEYONDER 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffro. Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 1 hour ago, William-James88 said: 4 hours ago, Jeffro. said: Oh c'mon. Both Perez and Byrne had distinctive styles. That's just wrong on all levels. There was no one else drawing like them. To each their own I'm curious how you could say that two comic artists with distinct and unique styles, again no one else was drawing like them at the time, could have no distinctive style. Genuinely curious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjonahjameson11 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 44 minutes ago, 500Club said: I can neither endorse this or argue with it. Miller's output was so sparse. When he did produce though, things like his core DD run, his follow-up 'Born Again', The Dark Knight Returns, and Batman: Year One were magnificent. Ask Miller to do a 60 issue run like Byrne did on FF, though, and we'd see if he could provide that consistent level of excellence. I think You’re making the assumption that the entire 60 issues was of “consistent level of excellence “, which it wasn’t. JJ-4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Aldred Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 5 hours ago, William-James88 said: . Perez could have done X-Men and Byrne could have done Teen Titans and I think the world of comics would still be pretty much the same Not impossible, but Byrne at his peak was also an excellent writer as well as artist, and there’s a noticeable upswing in quality on X-Men once he’s co-writer / plotter with Chris Claremont. That’s the level that Perez would’ve needed to reach, but there’s no historical evidence to support it. IIRC he’s written a couple of short mini-series, but nothing on the classic scale of the interlinked narrative of Savage Land / Alpha Flight / Proteus / Dark Phoenix / Days of Future Past. kav 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
500Club Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 4 minutes ago, jjonahjameson11 said: 1 hour ago, 500Club said: I can neither endorse this or argue with it. Miller's output was so sparse. When he did produce though, things like his core DD run, his follow-up 'Born Again', The Dark Knight Returns, and Batman: Year One were magnificent. Ask Miller to do a 60 issue run like Byrne did on FF, though, and we'd see if he could provide that consistent level of excellence. I think You’re making the assumption that the entire 60 issues was of “consistent level of excellence “, which it wasn’t. I should re-word that. I was referring to Miller providing the level of excellence that he did in the works above, consistently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William-James88 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 29 minutes ago, Jeffro. said: I'm curious how you could say that two comic artists with distinct and unique styles, again no one else was drawing like them at the time, could have no distinctive style. Genuinely curious Well if it helps, I got acquainted with that art in 2010 amidst everything else that was. So their art did not appear to break free from the crowd. It just looked like standard proportions to me. Well done for sure, but nothing I could pick from a line up if they drew a scene I was unfamiliar with. Unlike Miller, Simonson, or the aforementioned Bolland. Not saying Miller is a better artist, he is not, but his style is more recognizable to me. Also I thought Perez was picked for Superman to indicate to readers that the title was returning to a more classic and familiar feeling, that alone tells me that his art is not that distinctive when compared to other artists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken Aldred Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, 500Club said: I should re-word that. I was referring to Miller providing the level of excellence that he did in the works above, consistently. Fair point, because even on Daredevil he did peter out a bit over his last year or so, with sketchier layouts and more and more detailed completion by his inker, Klaus Janson. Edited June 1, 2020 by Ken Aldred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William-James88 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 (edited) 31 minutes ago, Ken Aldred said: Not impossible, but Byrne at his peak was also an excellent writer as well as artist, and there’s a noticeable upswing in quality on X-Men once he’s co-writer / plotter with Chris Claremont. That’s the level that Perez would’ve needed to reach, but there’s no historical evidence to support it. IIRC he’s written a couple of short mini-series, but nothing on the classic scale of the interlinked narrative of Savage Land / Alpha Flight / Proteus / Dark Phoenix / Days of Future Past. For sure, i was just answering the topic which only referred to art. I see many people bringing up the writing, creativeness and impact on story that these different artists had but I was approaching it simply from the art standpoint where I find them rather similar. By that I mean the art is as good and helps tell the story just as well. What's memorable to me are the stories more than the art style itself. (Unlike, say, Batman Hush where that book's popularity lies mostly with the art). Edited June 1, 2020 by William-James88 Ken Aldred 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjonahjameson11 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 34 minutes ago, 500Club said: I should re-word that. I was referring to Miller providing the level of excellence that he did in the works above, consistently. Ah, that makes sense! 👍🏻 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kav Posted June 1, 2020 Author Share Posted June 1, 2020 Good thread! JJ-4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William-James88 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 7 minutes ago, kav said: Good thread! I was hoping we could talk about Neal Adams but it looks like that would be a different era. kav 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJ-4 Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 1 hour ago, Ken Aldred said: Not impossible, but Byrne at his peak was also an excellent writer as well as artist, and there’s a noticeable upswing in quality on X-Men once he’s co-writer / plotter with Chris Claremont. That’s the level that Perez would’ve needed to reach, but there’s no historical evidence to support it. IIRC he’s written a couple of short mini-series, but nothing on the classic scale of the interlinked narrative of Savage Land / Alpha Flight / Proteus / Dark Phoenix / Days of Future Past. Perez became a co-plotter or co-writer with Wolfman (and maybe even co-editor) on NTT and rolled off that very successful book to Crisis where he drew the majority of DC characters. Both were massive hits and then we went on to re-boot Wonder Woman, where he wrote, drew and did covers. He was THE top artist at DC for multiple years. The NTT run was the basis of the rebirth of DC and it had a lasting impact all the way to the hit Teen Titans Go! TV show are still being felt today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeffro. Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 1 hour ago, William-James88 said: 2 hours ago, Jeffro. said: I'm curious how you could say that two comic artists with distinct and unique styles, again no one else was drawing like them at the time, could have no distinctive style. Genuinely curious Well if it helps, I got acquainted with that art in 2010 amidst everything else that was. So their art did not appear to break free from the crowd. It just looked like standard proportions to me. Well done for sure, but nothing I could pick from a line up if they drew a scene I was unfamiliar with. Unlike Miller, Simonson, or the aforementioned Bolland. Not saying Miller is a better artist, he is not, but his style is more recognizable to me. Also I thought Perez was picked for Superman to indicate to readers that the title was returning to a more classic and familiar feeling, that alone tells me that his art is not that distinctive when compared to other artists. Maybe it comes down to you had to be there in 80s to understand how truly unique Byrne and Perez were. I can't imagine looking at their work and not immediately recognizing their distinctive styles. To each his own indeed telerites, WeR138 and William-James88 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan510 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 7 hours ago, kav said: Good thread! We keep disagreeing. greggy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaykin Stevens Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 On 5/28/2020 at 9:16 PM, kav said: orig art for byrne can be found cheap. perez is pricey. that says it all. The Original Art board's thread for A-level page prices seems to have Byrne and Perez in the same ballpark: $30-40k Byrne - X-Men $10-20k Perez - Infinity Gauntlet $5-10k Perez/Marcos - Avengers 1st run Byrne - FF / Iron Fist / MTU / Avengers 1st run Perez - New Teen Titans / Crisis on Infinite Earths $3-5k Perez - FF / JLA Byrne - Captain America Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE_BEYONDER Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 13 hours ago, kav said: Good thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjonahjameson11 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 13 hours ago, William-James88 said: I was hoping we could talk about Neal Adams but it looks like that would be a different era. Let’s not. Neal does a great job talking about Neal. JJ-4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bb8 Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 For me it's close, but I would choose Perez based solely on Future Imperfect. That book blew me away as a kid. JJ-4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...