Pricing/Valuing Comic Art

[Sharkey]

A comment about the original art price guide was brought up in another thread, and it made me think a lot of about pricing/valuing pages.

 

I bought Jerry Weist's art price guide a few years ago and although it's a nice book and contains a lot of useful and interesting information, I thought it was so far off base as far as the pricing is concerned that it was more or less useless as a true price guide.

 

Until someone creates a GPAnalysis for art sales, it's going to be difficult to keep track of sales and extrapolate trends where possible. But can you even extrapolate trends for the sales of one-of-a-kind items??

 

So that begs the question: how to value/price art?

 

Typically I do searches in the Heritage archive, and search various dealer art sites to see if i can find comparable pages and see if they have sold and if so how much they sold for. But because every page is different, you can't truly compare apples to apples in an exact way. It's not the same as seeing what the previous year's sales totals were for 9.4 copies of ASM 51.

 

So I'm curious, how do YOU decide if a price is fair or not? Do you just in your gut say, "here's how much that page is worth to me"??

[nik]

Thats a real tough question.

 

While its easier to realize what books are fetching, OA is totally different animal.

 

Something thats 1 of a kind is pretty hard to put a price tag on, because you have nothing to compare it with.

 

Why do some covers sell for XX while others sell for XXXX?

 

 

For me when I first started buying OA, I could not care less who the inker/penciler was, as long as I looked at the page and said to myself, WOW what a kick [embarrassing lack of self control] page.

 

So I guess when selling, as long as other buyers say the same when viewing, that will account for how much it will go for. Not much of an answer but, there is really nothing definitive about the OA Market.

[spider9698]

Good post. Another issue is that many "high-end" deals are being done with cash/trade which can artificially inflate prices.

[delekkerste]

Good post. Another issue is that many "high-end" deals are being done with cash/trade which can artificially inflate prices.

 

Yep, kind of like the story about the young boy who proudly tells his father that he traded his $50,000 dog for two $30,000 cats.

[desertdogg]

humm tuff question for sure. but here,s my take on it. there are a lot of points to look at when pricing or selling comic art. things like who the artist is. is the person hot or not. are they dead or alive. are we dealing with a modern page or silver or bronze age art.

 

splash or panel page. how many panels are the main hero in.? it make a big diffrence price wise. you can check ebay to see whats selling and what,s not but it.s not a good place to gage a page of art true worth. due to fact of shill bidding or two die hard collectors getting in a bid war of the same peice.

 

but i think rhino said it best. you should ask a few dealers you know or some of the board members that have been in the game awhile. not that every will be 100% right it will get you close to an ideal of what the page you selling or buying is worth.

 

also you can check the hundreds of art sites and look up some prices of the artist your interested in you may get lucky and find pages from the same book. in rare cases. so do your home work on the piece your looking at or for . and you will be ok;

 

larry ;]

[dem1138]

I believe that the OA market for comic art is very similar to any other art market. The more established the artist, the better you are able to gauge what a 'typical' piece is worth and then can value the specific piece higher or lower based on the following characteristics:

 

-it's personal appeal to you - ie - a page that wowed you when you saw it in the book or a page from the first comic you read

-it's general appeal to the marketplace

-number of panels the main character or premier character is in

-if the artist is "known" for putting thier style on that character - for example - Romita Spider-man is more desireable in the general marketplace than Romita Captain America

-1st appearance, distinct pose(s), appearances with villians, guest stars

-relevance of the page in specific storyline

-what the character is "doing" - ie - Spidey shooting is webs - or Donald Blake transforming into Thor

 

Hence I think it's easier to gauge a more accurate value of a Kirby FF piece than it would be a Tony Harris Ex Machina page...

 

Great discussion though...and like any other market based on a finite object...the book gets thrown out when a buyer with deep pockets pays whatever it takes to get what they want...

[Sharkey]

 

Hence I think it's easier to gauge a more accurate value of a Kirby FF piece than it would be a Tony Harris Ex Machina page...

 

Great discussion though...and like any other market based on a finite object...the book gets thrown out when a buyer with deep pockets pays whatever it takes to get what they want...

 

Definitely true. Especially because each piece is unique unto itself.

[rex graine-migration]

With very few exceptions, content--and by that I mean story content--is highly overrated in determining value.

 

I remember a few years ago a friend of mine was all proud of a new page he had acquired. Was it a cover or a splash, I asked, or a nicely rendered example of storytelling? Was it from one of the better artists? No, he said, it was a page from Captain America # something, featuring the death of the Red Skull. Well, you can see the problem here--a "death" of a character in a superhero comic is not an event at all.

 

I can see where a page featuring the first appearance of a character is important, but really...I'd rather have, say, an Adams "hidden head" page than any Adams first appearance of a character, and I don't think I'm unusual in this regard.

[heartened]

In general, the value of a piece is most associated with the artist who is rendering it. Price goes up if the artist is doing the character he is most known for, in the storyline he is most known for drawing. And, a major event, like the introduction of a key character, or a major plotline twist in that famous storyline, would garner more value. A splash and cover example from that artist's well-known storyline would be even more expensive than an interior page (in general). Within this context, storyline/content can be very important. Don't forget that without the story, most of us would never have picked up thise books, and I believe it is typically the story that brings back the fond memories and makes us collect. It's sort of similar to collecting animation cells.... is the art really that pretty, or is it the art plus the story plus the nostalgia/sentimental value associated with it all?

 

Kirby drawing Black Panther is nice, drawing Captain America is nicer, drawing FF is even better, drawing FF from the legendary Sinnott run is nicer still, and of course drawing a page from the Doom/Surfer issues or the classic This Man This Monster issue is even nicer, and a splash or cover would be unheard of. This price transition exists partly because of the increased value associated with content.

 

You can do the same thing with any artist: Wrightson doing Batman the Cult is OK, House of Secrets is very cool, Swamp Thing interiors, Swamp Thing splashes, covers, and finally Frankenstein Plates. Miller, Perez, Byrne, Romita..... all follow the same sequence. Miller's peak might be Dark Knight, or certain Daredevil covers/pages. Romita Spider-Man covers, Perez Crisis, Avengers or Infinity Gauntlet, Byrne X-Men.

 

That's sort of how many original art collectors value art.

 

There is a whole other side, however, which is the pure nostalgia side of collecting. And, that side has more to do with how many people remember a particular image or story from their childhood, and hence want to buy it when they find it later. Never underestimate this side of things. And, forget about predicting value.

[spider9698]

Well said!!

[matewan1990]

I asked a dealer friend of mine how much a cover I had in my collection was worth. He said probably $450-$600. Another dealer said $650-$700. I thought it might be worth a little more and it turned out it was. I got $1100 for it. I got a piece of art from a collector a few years back in a large trade and he said it was worth about $400. I figured, hey, it's a Starlin unpublished cover with a lot of major characters on it and it's got to be worth more than $400. So, I put it up for trade and ended up getting $1600 for it. I bought a page of art from a dealer for $325. Not long after, I got $650 for the page. I bought a page from eBay for $118 and got $450 out of it. And a page of Miracleman art by Totleben that I COULDN'T hardly GIVE AWAY (that had 8 sketch drawings with it that made up the stat art on the page) I traded to a buddy and he got $650 out of it on eBay. All the dealers I tried to trade it to for $200, though, all laughed at it. The Miracleman 4 cover art I paid $1000 and traded for a $4500 cover, later sold for $3300. At first, I was told that cover was basically worthless by several dealers, one of which ended up selling it...

It's hard to determine the value, even if you're an experienced dealer or collector.

[krazykat-migration]

I asked a dealer friend of mine how much a cover I had in my collection was worth. He said probably $450-$600. Another dealer said $650-$700. I thought it might be worth a little more and it turned out it was. I got $1100 for it. I got a piece of art from a collector a few years back in a large trade and he said it was worth about $400. I figured, hey, it's a Starlin unpublished cover with a lot of major characters on it and it's got to be worth more than $400. So, I put it up for trade and ended up getting $1600 for it. I bought a page of art from a dealer for $325. Not long after, I got $650 for the page. I bought a page from eBay for $118 and got $450 out of it. And a page of Miracleman art by Totleben that I COULDN'T hardly GIVE AWAY (that had 8 sketch drawings with it that made up the stat art on the page) I traded to a buddy and he got $650 out of it on eBay. All the dealers I tried to trade it to for $200, though, all laughed at it. The Miracleman 4 cover art I paid $1000 and traded for a $4500 cover, later sold for $3300. At first, I was told that cover was basically worthless by several dealers, one of which ended up selling it...

It's hard to determine the value, even if you're an experienced dealer or collector.

 

The funny thing about the OA hobby is that it is so small. In essence, the demand schedule has so much up-side its down-right frightening. Ive been tracking the number of subscibers to comic-art-l and the user base is growing at a 25% clip every 4 months. If you ask Joe Maddalena of Profiles in history why the 'wardrobe, accesory, prop' market has developed as immensely as it has - he will tell you that it is because there are globally more people interested in such collectibles than any other collectibe segment. However, this is a boon for art collectors who are looking for upside becaus while the base is small we have soooo much room to grow. Between comic collectors switching to OA and simply neophyte collectors OA prices should continue parabolic for at least the next decade.

[westform]

Hari; I tend to agree but I would have put the last paragraph first. In my case, nostalgia plays a pre-eminent role in collecting. I will pay huuuge bucks for pieces I want that mean something to me; but everything else better be a fair deal, or at least within reason. Moreover, there are many, many pieces of art that hit all the buttons within the collecting community that I have absolutely no interest in at all. Frankenstein plates are a good example; I have had many shots at them at all different prices but since the subject matter means nothing to me I am content merely to appreciate them from afar. But... give me the right Buscema Nova cover and I'll gladly pay 10k for it. Just goes to show that this hobby is a lot whackier and harder to figure than any pricing structure can ever measure! DF

[heartened]

Hi Dan,

 

I didn't mean to state that the nostalgia component of the collecting community is smaller. On the contrary, I think both are equally represented in collecting circles. I happen to collect both ways, which I find very rewarding personally. I find I enjoy art for art's sake (Frankenstein Plates), art for the history they have in the comic book mythos (Romita Spider-Man cover, Crisis 8 cover, TMNT cover), and art for pure nostalgia (Grendel 1 cover, pages from the first book I ever read Iron Man 154).

 

Well, anyway, that's my method to the madness. Each person's madness, I'm sure, differs.

[*paull*]

Don't bother selling or trading original art with the major comic OA dealers. I'm not going to mention any names, but what I was offered by a couple of them for a very desirable page that I have was far, far below the market value.

[Sharkey]

Well sure, they are in the business to make money. Just like a comic dealer will not offer you full guide for a comic. I agree though, that it's frustrating when you sense that they are trying to lowball you.

 

I haven't sold art straight up to a dealer, I've only done trades or partial trade/partial cash. A few of the dealers I've traded with have been very reasonable in their dealings. A couple who I've tried to deal with were not.

 

It really depends on what they have that you want, and what you have to offer in return. Of course, they are going to try to maximize what they are getting because they are businessmen first.

 

If you are going to deal with a dealer, shop around, as noted in a previous post, different dealers may offer you different amounts depending on whether or not they know a customer who is looking for that particular artist or title.

 

I also think that sites like comicartfans.com and the yahoo comicart-l List have helped to put collectors in touch with eachother.

 

What irritates me is the way prices for pieces often skyrocket for no apparent reason. One dealer who I tried to work out a trade for a splash at last year's Chicago Comicon. It was priced at $10,000 which I thought was a bit high, and we didn't end up working out the deal. Then he comes back wtih the same piece this year and now it is priced at $18,000. WOW! An $8,000 appreciation in one year!

Needless to say, no deal was done.

[nik]

OA prices, I'll never get.

 

I was following this Jim Lee Splash which I thought would go for alot more but could not even fetch $500

 

 

So much cooler than some of his panel pages from Batman that went for over double in price.

[desertdogg]

while. that is an really cool page. and jim is an great artist. you pretty much answered your own question. it not batman. had that been a splash of batman it would have gone for 2000.00 plus.

 

it all about choice here. people will pay more for the better books. an jim lee x-men page will sell more than a jim lee punisher page. unless woverine is on it. the up side is if your a big fan of his work you will be able to pick up a nice page like you have in the scan at a fraction of what a batman page would cost. larry ;]

[Sharkey]