SHE-HULK # 1 COVER ART -- RUINED ?

[desertdogg]

kk. i agree and i totally get your point. but. if there is even a slight chance that, who knows. that the cover was re-drawn . aka conan # 100. and if then final printed version if it not a stat version of the color peice. then. imho. the printed verison would be the original and the color piece would just be another rejected cover.

 

larry ;]

[krazykat-migration]

kk. i agree and i totally get your point. but. if there is even a slight chance that, who knows. that the cover was re-drawn . aka conan # 100. and if then final printed version if it not a stat version of the color peice. then. imho. the printed verison would be the original and the color piece would just be another rejected cover.

 

larry ;]

 

Lar,

 

Perhaps,...but the consensus [per, Comic Art-L forum] (and I happen to agree with it),..is that this is the original published art,...as 98% of the art elements are SPOT ON WITH THE PUBLISHED VERSION.

 

The differences,,,are probably the result of production manipulation and re-drawing on top of a 'statted' image.

 

THAT SAID,...I agree with everything you say,...

 

unfortunately it doesnt seem to apply here : (

as it looks like Oliffe DID mutilate the original art.

 

KK

[desertdogg]

kk. well if the consensus agreed that the ebay item is truly the real deal. then who iam to augue with the masses.

 

that being said. then yes we have lost an true original peice and no matter how purdy it looks the original has still been marred beyond repair.

 

larry

[ArAich]

Excuse me for my simplistic views on this subject but I would like to interject 2 points.

 

[*]1) If original art is "colorized" years later is it still considered original art?

 

[*]c) Would anyone in there right mind think that "colorization" of some of the simplistic GA covers that Heritage recently sold would be a good thing?

[krazykat-migration]

Excuse me for my simplistic views on this subject but I would like to interject 2 points.

 

[*]1) If original art is "colorized" years later is it still considered original art?

 

[*]c) Would anyone in there right mind think that "colorization" of some of the simplistic GA covers that Heritage recently sold would be a good thing?

 

Yes,....(although it should be viewed as marred/ mutilated)

 

And,...No.

 

This is in my honest opinion not a very complicated issue, as it is apparent. Coloring art by any third party is mutilation.

[Solar]

Here are a couple of Buscema Savage Sword of Conan pages from the www.collectingfool.com website that appear to have been colored by Oliffe.

 

I have no problem with these being colored and they really do look amazing. On pages like these it may actually increase the market value too, as they're pretty minor examples that need a little help to separate them from the pack.

 

My only worry is for the more unique and historical pieces out there, but then again, it's the owner's call, not mine.

[desertdogg]

ArAich . is the art still original after its been colored. imho. nope. yes it still art.

 

but you have added to the peice. so it not original anymore. because you have changed it and it is not in it original form. so you cannot call it original. its like calling kfc extra crispy, original style. you can,t the chicken has been changed.

 

sorry to use kfc as a point just hungry as hell. at this point a need to get me a serious snack. .

 

as for heritage. hey what ever floats your boat. true collector know the difference. and if someone wants to buy a piece colored after the fact. them more power to them.

larry.

[ArAich]

Mmmm chicken....

 

To me coloring an original is sorta like Turner colorizing the classics...the finished product looks more polished and new details are brought forward but the original is lost and the suttle tones and shadows are lost forever...

 

Methinks KK is right that it is a form of mutilation and others are right that color makes it a much more detailed and vivid image...but the original is the original...and once altered you can never get it back....

[*paull*]

There's no way that piece is worth more in this state. Anyone that does something like that needs their head examined.

[desertdogg]

solar. looks like mama is wrong again. sorry but seriously you can,t belive that coloring a page of comic art will bring the value up of that page,

 

it will never happen. only someone who knows nothing about original comic art would buy an page colored and pay over market value for it. i my self would never buy a page that was colored after the fact. unless the seller was selling at a super cheap low price. and then i would just flip it,

 

it like those new state quarters i see on the cable show that have been gold plated. who in there right mind would think these would ever be worth anything.

 

if you want a gold coin then buy a gold coin . not something that.s been plated.

 

if you want to color a boring page in your collection, # 1 don,t buy a boring page in the 1st place, 2nd go down to kinkos and get a stat made and then have mr olliff or your kids. they will probley do a better job than steve did. color the stat.

 

that way you have preserved the original. and you have a color stat on your wall to make you happy. larry ;]

[delekkerste]

Methinks KK is right that it is a form of mutilation and others are right that color makes it a much more detailed and vivid image...but the original is the original...and once altered you can never get it back....

 

Like I said, I firmly believe that many/most pieces can be aesthetically improved by the addition of color, but there is something to be said for preserving the originals in their original state. Given the age, historical nature and market value of a lot of GA/SA/Bronze/some Copper art, would I advocate coloring them? I agree that it probably doesn't make a lot of sense and that having a high quality copy colored instead is a better alternative. However, would I bay for Steve Oliffe's blood, call him the art equivalent of a vandal and thumb my nose at the artwork that he colored 20+ years ago when it was selling for $15-$20/page? Absolutely not and I think these condemnations are misguided and wrong.

[krazykat-migration]

solar. looks like mama is wrong again. sorry but seriously you can,t belive that coloring a page of comic art will bring the value up of that page,

 

it will never happen. only someone who knows nothing about original comic art would buy an page colored and pay over market value for it. i my self would never buy a page that was colored after the fact. unless the seller was selling at a super cheap low price. and then i would just flip it,

 

it like those new state quarters i see on the cable show that have been gold plated. who in there right mind would think these would ever be worth anything.

 

if you want a gold coin then buy a gold coin . not something that.s been plated.

 

if you want to color a boring page in your collection, # 1 don,t buy a boring page in the 1st place, 2nd go down to kinkos and get a stat made and then have mr olliff or your kids. they will probley do a better job than steve did. color the stat.

 

that way you have preserved the original. and you have a color stat on your wall to make you happy. larry ;]

 

HERE !! HERE !!!

 

It amazes me that ANYONE would encourage this type of mutilation.

 

 

And even on lesser valued pages,..has not the past shown, you cant predict the future ?

 

 

 

Todays inexpensive art is tommorrow high-end art. So,..in summary,..coloring is MUTILATION and besides being morally wrong DOES NOT enhance the aesthetics (no matter what some few say),..

 

ADDITIONALLY,,...economically,..it is simply a dumb-move and not wise at all because the market will never recognize some Joe Schmoe coloring india inked art.

 

 

[joe_collector]

Are you guys absolutely certain this is the ORIGINAL?

 

It is different than the cover image in lots of ways, and looks more like a reproduction. And yes, I'm talking about the line art on She-Hulk and the bystanders, not the colors or missing background.

 

It's pretty obvious really.

[delekkerste]

solar. looks like mama is wrong again. sorry but seriously you can,t belive that coloring a page of comic art will bring the value up of that page,

 

In most cases that is correct, but with those SSOC pages, you are definitely wrong. Buscema did thousands of Conan pages, many of which are very undistinguished. Well, those color versions certainly are distinguished now and would rightfully sell for more than the token amounts they would normally sell for as cheap examples of his Conan work.

 

 

if you want a gold coin then buy a gold coin . not something that.s been plated.

 

I saw that analogy on ComicArt-L, but it doesn't make any sense. A gold coin is in its finished state and does not need to be improved upon.

[desertdogg]

delekkerste. { these condemnation are misguided and wrong }

 

i tell you what is wrong. it does not matter if the pages were colored 20 years ago or today and if they were $ 15.00 or $ 15.000

 

you cannot justifie coloring a original page.is right. at no time. you change the peice forever more. when you add color. it does not add value to the peice in no shape or form. the blame is not so much on olliff the guy does what he does.

 

it the person who brought the item and them had it colored. because he wanted an over sized comic book to look at. larry

[krazykat-migration]

Are you guys absolutely certain this is the ORIGINAL?

 

It is different than the cover image in lots of ways, and looks more like a reproduction. And yes, I'm talking about the line art on She-Hulk and the bystanders, not the colors or missing background.

 

It's pretty obvious really.

 

ACTUALLY JOE,...

 

I too see what you see and am puzzled,..mainly by some of the line-work.

 

Maybe, desertdog is right ?

 

Curious to see how the consensus formulates on this issue...defintely difficult to do a full comparison without the art.

 

KK

 

The most striking anamoly is the shadow on the girl on the far lefts skirt but again,..this could have been re-worked in post-production. Strange.

[joe_collector]

Another thing about it, is that it just *looks* better and more refined than the original (finer line strokes), and almost *newer* in some way. Even if the work was copied afterward, and then rearranged, there is no way so much detail would be lost and added, all at the same time.

[krazykat-migration]

Another thing about it, is that it just *looks* better and more refined than the original (finer line strokes), and almost *newer* in some way. Even if the work was copied afterward, and then rearranged, there is no way so much detail would be lost and added, all at the same time.

 

By original, I assume you mean, the comic ?

 

Hard to say,...Oliffe maybe re-inked the piece to make it sharper.

 

There are,..imho,..too many details that are spot-on, so I think its original,..but am willing to admit that my assesment is inconclusive.

 

Again,..the art needs to be in front of me to tell for fact,..but I think its the real deal.

 

Nontheless,...I have ZERO interest in this Oliffe monstrosity.

 

Although for $1000,..its probably a good deal.

 

KK

[desertdogg]

again. that was my point. in even if the figures were made as stats and re-inked on another cover. that was the final print. would that not make it the original.

 

but as kk stated if the masses agree that color peice is the original. with out seeking out the published cover. well that. is on them. iam not buying it so it does not effect me.

 

i would not touch that color peice unless i saw the published cover 1st. hand. larry ;]

[krazykat-migration]

again. that was my point. in even if the figures were made as stats and re-inked on another cover. that was the final print. would that not make it the original.

 

 

Larry,

 

I sold the Cover to DareDevil # 21 and it was exactly this scenario.

 

The art had been statted,...and than,..on top of the stat,...ALOTTA,...and I mean alotta,.. white-out's and other inks were applied.

 

Ultimately, this mess of a piece looked more like the published version than obviously the pre-worked penciled/inked page.

 

THAT SAID,...I was able to get about 8K for the piece,...if it had been clean,..it would have sold for 4 times that.

 

In the instant case, it looks like the images were merely manipulated and moved,..if they were "re-drawn on top of the stat" the published art should look much, much different if MAJOR new art was created,...here,..it looks like not much work was done on top of the original art, as we have here.