Just got my first CGC Graded Books back

[Shadow]

OK, first the obligatory apology for those who probably see threads like these daily if not hourly.

 

Let me set this up with a little info. Collecting comics has always been a hobby for me and I doubt I'll ever sell my collection as I'm too sentimental about it. I was always wary of CGC, not for what they do, just that I thought it kind of defeated the purpose of reading the book and I still think the market is too hot on many comics to sustain itself. I never wanted to bother sending anything in over the mail. Too much of a hassle for me. I bag and board every book and it's stored in a nice cool, dark and dry area. Since it's just a hobby, I try to get most of my books in Fine or better, depending on the value. (For instance, I collect JLA & X-men as my cores.) I just bought JLA #1 this last spring. It's a book I thought I'd never get as I wouldn't spend thousands of dollars on it. I did buy it in VG and it plugs the final of 2 holes. (#2 being all that's left for me. ) But some of the other books in the Silver Age I'd look for in VF or better. In the 70's, it's NM or better.

 

So, I saw that CGC was taking books in at the Motor City Comic show this last May. I figured I'd send in 3 books, pretty much out of curiousity. I brought 3 books that I thought were in good shape. (X-Men #58 - 1st Havoc, Conan #3, & B&B #93 - House of Mystery ) Too me, these were all VF or better. They came back as follows:

 

X-Men #58 is a 9.0. I thought it was a little better but I'm sure I'm looking through a biased eye.

 

B&B #93 was a 8.0 and Conan #3 was a 7.0. What was surprising too me was they were both coded purple, ie. restored. Both were "Slight" and B&B was coded P for Professional and Conan A for Amateur. (Is that correct?) Why is it I feel like they're not as up to snuff now? This is by no way criticism of CGC. I would have never known. And it's not like I was doing this to sell them. I can't even see where they've been touched up.

 

Ah well, at least I can see these 3 graded objectively. I doubt I'll send many more in primarily because it's not worth the cost to me. I always use Overstreets Guide. Would the X-Men go for guide when it's a 9.0? (Is that pretty common?) Again, this is just for my own knowledge and curiousity. I'm sure someday, decades from now, it might finally see the market again.

[Aman619]

bummer about the restored books. Thats always a worst case scenario, far worse than when a "NM" comes back as a lowly 7.0 for instance.

[sfilosa]

Now you know why many collectors who pay good money for books, buy them already CGC'd.

 

The problem is not that the books are restored. It's you didn't know it at the time, and probably paid unrestored prices. Or if you did get a "great deal" at the time, you now realize that it wasn't a great deal at all.

 

There are plenty of collectors like you who probably won't send books to CGC anymore simply because "ignorance is bliss". I can't blame you or them, but you do need to be more careful with future purchases.

 

Good Luck.

[tth2]

Shadow, welcome to the boards!

 

I'm bummed to hear how your books came back, I can totally relate, unfortunately. I have to echo sfilosa's comments: despite some of their mistakes, the restoration detection service alone justifies CGC's existence.

 

Your experience also highlights that folks here who think they can avoid the problems that have afflicted this hobby by focusing on lower grade books and BA books are kidding themselves. Books of all eras in all grades were doctored up regularly.

 

Also, people here who think that the high prices paid for .2 differentials on ultra-HG books are the main reason for all the monkey business going on now are deluding themselves. Unscrupulous collectors and dealers have always tampered with books, even when the stakes were much lower and the increase in grade resulting from the tampering was maybe worth $5 or $10.

[sfilosa]

Also, people here who think that the high prices paid for .2 differentials on ultra-HG books are the main reason for all the monkey business going on now are deluding themselves. Unscrupulous collectors and dealers have always tampered with books, even when the stakes were much lower and the increase in grade resulting from the tampering was maybe worth $5 or $10.

 

 

Excellent point.

 

Think of it this way. Once a dealer or collector was willing to touch up a $100 book, his ethics were completely out the window. So why not touch a little bit here and there even on $10-20 books. If they moved faster and for more money, there was a reason not to do it.

[joe_collector]

So why not touch a little bit here and there even on $10-20 books. If they moved faster and for more money, there was a reason not to do it.

 

Sure, but if you can't see this quickie amateur stuff, then get out of the hobby.

 

Let's get back to reality here; no one is going to use high-end techniques and a small fortune to trim, color touch, clean and seal a $20 comic.

[sfilosa]

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So why not touch a little bit here and there even on $10-20 books. If they moved faster and for more money, there was a reason not to do it.

 

 

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Sure, but if you can't see this quickie amateur stuff, then get out of the hobby.

 

Let's get back to reality here; no one is going to use high-end techniques and a small fortune to trim, color touch, clean and seal a $20 comic.

 

I'm talking about a very minor color touch. If you think you can spot all "quick" color touches, you are kidding yourself.

 

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

So why not touch a little bit here and there even on $10-20 books. If they moved faster and for more money, there was a reason not to do it.

 

Sure, but if you can't see this quickie amateur stuff, then get out of the hobby.

 

Let's get back to reality here; no one is going to use high-end techniques and a small fortune to trim, color touch, clean and seal a $20 comic.

 

I don't know about that...someone told me a year ago they were shocked to find a handful of $20 books they bought at a major Con with CT. He hadn't thought to really look them over at the con, afterall, they were so low dollar, but sure enough, either the dealer or some one-time owner felt the need to CT them. Go figure.

[tth2]

So why not touch a little bit here and there even on $10-20 books. If they moved faster and for more money, there was a reason not to do it.

 

Sure, but if you can't see this quickie amateur stuff, then get out of the hobby.

 

Let's get back to reality here; no one is going to use high-end techniques and a small fortune to trim, color touch, clean and seal a $20 comic.

Trimming is easy to do, and unless the buyer is looking really hard, which he might not do for a cheap, ragged out $20 book, he could very easily miss the trimming. JC, surely a cynical soul such as yourself is not suggesting that low-end cheap stuff is immune from restoration?

[SignatureSelect]

it happened to me on an avengers 57 a while back the book looked like a 7.5 it was 20 bucks. I thought is was a good deal I looked it over carefully checked the inside of the cover for bleed thru. no bleed thru, I even checked it at my booth with a magnafier and a black light no color touch. But CGC found it. so even a careful collector that looks carefully can get stung.

[Jeffro.]

it happened to me on an avengers 57 a while back the book looked like a 7.5 it was 20 bucks. I thought is was a good deal I looked it over carefully checked the inside of the cover for bleed thru. no bleed thru, I even checked it at my booth with a magnafier and a black light no color touch. But CGC found it. so even a careful collector that looks carefully can get stung.

 

That's pretty scary. I shudder to think that some of my books might have some restoration.

[sfilosa]

That's pretty scary. I shudder to think that some of my books might have some restoration.

 

Ignorance is bliss!!!!

[uclapeterg]

So why not touch a little bit here and there even on $10-20 books. If they moved faster and for more money, there was a reason not to do it.

 

Sure, but if you can't see this quickie amateur stuff, then get out of the hobby.

 

Let's get back to reality here; no one is going to use high-end techniques and a small fortune to trim, color touch, clean and seal a $20 comic.

 

Practice?

[divad]

That's pretty scary. I shudder to think that some of my books might have some restoration.

 

Ignorance is bliss!!!!

 

Not one of my books has been restored Why? 1) Most of my collection I bought off the rack; 2) Except for a stray book now and then, I generally only buy items from one other collection; and 3) Even those strays that I buy, I interview the seller first as to the provenance of the book.

 

Last but not least, I've never bought anything at a convention.

[divad]

X-Men #58 - 1st Havoc . . . X-Men #58 is a 9.0. I thought it was a little better but I'm sure I'm looking through a biased eye . . .

 

Would the X-Men go for guide when it's a 9.0? (Is that pretty common?) Again, this is just for my own knowledge and curiousity. I'm sure someday, decades from now, it might finally see the market again.

 

The good news is that the 9.0 X-Men #58 would go easily for 2 or 3 times guide

 

Sorry about the other two

[bigfiver69]

Hey guys,

 

Here's my experience on how not to get bummed when your books come back.

 

1. Get completely detached from your books. This is soooooo hard, because on the floor of a con, or looking at a scan on ebay at a book you've been aching for, the rationalizations come hard and fast. You overlook a blunt. Of a faint crease. Of a fingerprint on the back cover. Or whatever. If you're looking for 9.4s, don't submit it unless you think it's a 9.6. Undergrade your books as much as possible, and you will not be disappointed as much.

 

2. Get a flourescent light with a 3 to 5x magnifyer. It will not show color touch like a UV light, but you'll see a lot of detail you would otherwise miss. CGC are looking closely. You should look just as close.

 

3. Someone else said it. If you want books in the 9s, just buy books in the 9s. It costs less in the long run. It really does.

 

CGC basically made me re-evaluate and revalue my collection. I still love my books, and have many late silver/bronze war and horror books that would grade in the 9.2-9.4 range, but a lot of books I would have called 'NM' six years ago I now recognize as 8.0. CGC has also made me a much, much pickier buyer.

 

And as I have said many times before, if you've got a long run of raw books from the mid 60s to mid 70s in any genre in true 8.0-9.0, that is nothing to sneeze at.

 

Shep

[divad]

ahhhhhhhhhh-choooooooooooooooooooo!!!

 

all good advice . . .

[uclapeterg]

That's pretty scary. I shudder to think that some of my books might have some restoration.

 

Ignorance is bliss!!!!

 

Not one of my books has been restored Why? 1) Most of my collection I bought off the rack; 2) Except for a stray book now and then, I generally only buy items from one other collection; and 3) Even those strays that I buy, I interview the seller first as to the provenance of the book.

 

Last but not least, I've never bought anything at a convention.

 

I have bought at a convention and so far, none restored - one qualified.

 

I wonder if selling to you is like going on a job interview.

[Shadow]

Thanks for the input.

 

This was by no means a bash on CGC. Heck, I would've never known I had these "touched up". At least who ever buys these years later from me will know.

 

I guess I balanced out in the end. I bought the X-Men for around $50 8 or 9 years ago. The HOM was about $35 6 or 7 years ago. The Conan is the one I guess I got burned on. I think I spent about $125 2 years ago. Live and learn.

 

I liked the point about grading. I always thought I graded pretty well, but I can see I probably let my feelings get in the way at times. If I was planning on selling in the next couple of years, I'd probably CGC more often. But it's not worth another $100.00 for 3 books when I could use that money to buy a book. :

 

It does make me wonder what else I have that may have been touched up. I own about 2800 comics and most of my old stuff in recent years has come from the Motor City Show. There's definetly guys I seek out there and some I avoid. I can't remember who the Conan or B&B came from anymore.

 

It's kind of a Catch-22. If I buy the book graded by CGC, I'll end up paying a substantial premium and never have the experience of actually opening it. But, then again, I have an example of my Conan #3 the other way. I guess I could buy a beat up version to go with the CGC one. But I tend to think of that as a waste of money, rightly or wrongly.

 

Good points everyone.

[joe_collector]

But CGC found it. so even a careful collector that looks carefully can get stung.

 

Definitely, but it amuses me to no end how some on here are trying to say that finding a resto'd $20 book is somehow equivalent to finding out a $10K book is suddenly a PLOD.