Should the PLOD become a BLUE label?

[FFB]

To be honest with you, even if a compromise was reached and the purple label was kept, I wouldn't mind it as long as a degree of restoration number was still added. Those that don't want to collect restored books can have separate blue vs. purple labels, while everyone else would at least have a numbering system to value restored books. I just don't think it's fair for a book with a 1 restoration to sell as much as one with an 8 restoration.

 

I agree with this, and I cannot for the life of me, understand why people like FFB continue to talk like the new label format MUST be on Blue. Like it's color-dependent and the new numbers/notes would suddenly be invisible on Purple.

 

Just make a better label, with numerical ratings for Resto, but leave the color alone. The hobby has accepted this over the 5+ years it's been in use, and there is not one valid reason (other than dealer greed) for changing the color.

 

Just give us an enhanced Purple label with all the goodies.

 

As much as I would like the purple label to be dropped, I would view it as a plus if they started using the new numerical system even if only on a purple label. I don't think I've said otherwise. I just don't think the purple label is necessary, because with a blue label with full resto notes, I would be no less under-informed than if I were to buy a raw book with full disclosure of restoration and NO CGC label. If you bought this book, would you feel like you needed to see a purple label in addition to what is disclosed here to feel safe in buying the book? I wouldn't.

[tth2]

I agree with this, and I cannot for the life of me, understand why people like FFB continue to talk like the new label format MUST be on Blue.

In all fairness, FFB is not the leader of the restored label must be blue movement. I think he was just the person reporting conversations with Borock out of SD that it's something that might be coming down the pike. There are other fine members of these boards who've been pushing for the restored blue label the whole time I've been here. Unfortunately, despite my requests, these advocates have never been willing to admit or deny that they have ulterior motives.

[FFB]

I agree with this, and I cannot for the life of me, understand why people like FFB continue to talk like the new label format MUST be on Blue.

In all fairness, FFB is not the leader of the restored label must be blue movement. I think he was just the person reporting conversations with Borock out of SD that it's something that might be coming down the pike. There are other fine members of these boards who've been pushing for the restored blue label the whole time I've been here. Unfortunately, despite my requests, these advocates have never been willing to admit or deny that they have ulterior motives.

 

I'm pretty sure Povertyrow doesn't have ulterior motives. He just believes, like I do, that (a) there is no need to stigmatize restored books even further by adding the purple label to a disclosure of restoration (it comes off to some people as though CGC is using the purple label to tell you "Do not buy this book"), and because (b) people are better off educating themselves about restoration whether they want to buy restored books or not. In fact, that is especially true of someone who doesn't want to own restored books, because otherwise that person is entirely dependent upon CGC to do his checking for him. A person who hates restored books but doesn't know how to detect restoration basically cannot buy raw books safely.

[tth2]

I'm pretty sure Povertyrow doesn't have ulterior motives.

Pov wasn't who I was talking about. But it's interesting that none of the leaders of the movement ever respond to my questions by simply categorically denying that they have restored books in their collection that they haven't submitted because of the PLOD stigma.

[FFB]

I'm pretty sure Povertyrow doesn't have ulterior motives.

Pov wasn't who I was talking about. But it's interesting that none of the leaders of the movement ever respond to my questions by simply categorically denying that they have restored books in their collection that they haven't submitted because of the PLOD stigma.

 

Who are you talking about?

[tth2]

I'm pretty sure Povertyrow doesn't have ulterior motives.

Pov wasn't who I was talking about. But it's interesting that none of the leaders of the movement ever respond to my questions by simply categorically denying that they have restored books in their collection that they haven't submitted because of the PLOD stigma.

 

Who are you talking about?

Read my post again.

[THE_BEYONDER]

I'm pretty sure Povertyrow doesn't have ulterior motives.

Pov wasn't who I was talking about. But it's interesting that none of the leaders of the movement ever respond to my questions by simply categorically denying that they have restored books in their collection that they haven't submitted because of the PLOD stigma.

 

An influx of previously ungraded restored submissions?

 

I was thinking about all the PLODS that would be re-submitted. I wonder who has the largest collection of these?

 

CGC slams non color-breaking creases & these books get bought up cheap & pressed back to highers levels....

 

CGC attaches a 'stigma' to all restored books, then decides later to clear up "the confusion" by defining the degrees of the work done....

 

Smacks of elitism.

[FFB]

I'm pretty sure Povertyrow doesn't have ulterior motives.

Pov wasn't who I was talking about. But it's interesting that none of the leaders of the movement ever respond to my questions by simply categorically denying that they have restored books in their collection that they haven't submitted because of the PLOD stigma.

 

Who are you talking about?

Read my post again.

 

OK, I did, and I still don't know who you're talking about.

[skybolt]

I think the system would work fine if the blue labels are kept for unrestored books, and the purple label with the new numeric designation added for restored (to appease both sides). If enough restored books are sold over the next few years, then at least a buyer like myself would be able to gauge what percentage of unrestored value I can pay for a book with minor restoration (1) vs. one with extensive restoration (7). These days I'm so afraid to purchase a book with extensive restoration at let's say 40% guide, when tomorrow the book is given a 10 restoration factor and sells for only 20% guide. These days, all purple labeled books are lumped together, which makes it really to spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars on a book and then get burned. However, if a system is worked out where a GA book with a 1 resto typically receives 65% of guide, 4 resto - 40% guide, etc., then at least I can purchase these great books without worrying about the bottom falling out. I think blue or purple, the people that collect restored books would feel a lot better comparing their purchases to a tested system that has some real numbers to back it up..

[PovertyRow]

I agree with this, and I cannot for the life of me, understand why people like FFB continue to talk like the new label format MUST be on Blue.

In all fairness, FFB is not the leader of the restored label must be blue movement. I think he was just the person reporting conversations with Borock out of SD that it's something that might be coming down the pike. There are other fine members of these boards who've been pushing for the restored blue label the whole time I've been here. Unfortunately, despite my requests, these advocates have never been willing to admit or deny that they have ulterior motives.

 

Well I AM one who has been pushing for the Blue Label. Why? Because of comments like "Franken Book", where any book that has been restored is a "Franken Book". It is a weird perception that shows little knowledge or understanding of restoration. Or, maybe it shows a purely monetary perception. Whatever. To put a book with a small amount of color touch or a small drop of glue on the spine in the same umbrella as a book with pieces added, tears sealed, inpainting, leaf forming, spine roll removed, pages deacidified and reinforced staples makes no sense to me. Yet that is what the purple label does. Lets the offhand, casual "Fraken Book" appelation be tossed about as if this is some type of profound pronouncement. To read the notations and make a decision for oneself based on an intelligent assessment is instructional and valuable. It is also why I protested (and still do to this day) the dropping of the Alpha Grade, a grading system that has been in force for many many more years than CGC has been around. And CGC's reason, that the "minus" (as in, for example, NM-) was perceived as a negative thing. Well I say the same thing to that. Educate yourself.

 

I DO have an ulterior motive. To help educate people about restoration and to help people educate themselves about restoration. I have been doing that on the boards for years now. One of my earliest posts was a series of lengthy posts on restoration. Why did I post it? To be popular? No. To attract women? No (well - it didn't work so I will now say "No"). To help educate folks to a topic that has been denigrated because some insufficiently_thoughtful_persons and unscrupulous jerks/dealers have been doing amateur restoration and selling the books to collectors who know nothing about restoration, how to detect or even what it is? Actually, yes.

 

At one time professional comic book restoration was an accepted thing. In the early high-end auctions, restoration was often specified by the name of the restorer. It was seen as a positive thing and it is STILL a positive thing. It can allow a book to continue past its "due date". It can allow a barely openable book to be readable again. It can extend the "shelf life" of a book by many years.

 

What we are really looking at, in the final assessment, is money. I think that is a sad thing. It is sad to see the unscrupulous doctoring and selling raw books to uninformed collectors. It is sad to see the monetary bottom line being dictated by people who don't know what Japan paper is. It is especially sad to see a blanket condemnation of a process (restoration) regardless of the book being 100% intact (as in the case of pressing) or a true "Fraken Book" made of of many processes.

 

But to be honest, I continue to question my real motives, because as long as restored books are going for so cheap, I can (and have) found some incredible bargains on books that had nothig more than a slight color touch, which bothers me not a bit. So I should be on the side of the Purple label and the cheap prices. But I'm not.

[blowout]

Are CGC planning on using a BLUE label for all graded books from now on? Or are we just talking about a shift from PURPLE to BLUE?

[uclapeterg]

Are CGC planning on using a BLUE label for all graded books from now on? Or are we just talking about a shift from PURPLE to BLUE?

 

Restored / Unrestored / Qualified = all blue

 

Signature Series = yellow

 

If they are going to make them blue, they should make them ALL blue.

[FFB]

Are CGC planning on using a BLUE label for all graded books from now on? Or are we just talking about a shift from PURPLE to BLUE?

 

Restored / Unrestored / Qualified = all blue

 

Signature Series = yellow

 

If they are going to make them blue, they should make them ALL blue.

 

Why? There's no negative stigma associated with the yellow label. No one wants the yellow label changed to blue. Why do you feel the need to make a change that no one wants as a condition of making a different change for which there is a solid base of support?

[blowout]

If they are going to make them blue, they should make them ALL blue

 

Exactly

 

Why? There's no negative stigma associated with the yellow label. No one wants the yellow label changed to blue. Why do you feel the need to make a change that no one wants as a condition of making a different change for which there is a solid base of support?

 

It should have nothing to do with stigma and everything to do with providing information to the collector. If I understand correctly, your argument is that a colored label is not necessary to convey the grading information, a notation is all that is required. If that is the case, why should CGC keep the Yellow label, but ditch the PURPLE one?

[action1kid]

that is true, but a book with a small amount of color touch should not be in the same catagory as a TOTALLY unrestored book either.

[PovertyRow]

that is true, but a book with a small amount of color touch should not be in the same catagory as a TOTALLY unrestored book either.

 

No argument there at all.

 

Nor should a slight color touch put a book in the same category as a major resto job with many processes. Unfortunately, the purple label contributes to the mindset that the two are the same.

[action1kid]

Well, slight color touches do get a blue label. Allstar 3 mile high,more fun 52 mile high,the 7.5 action 1 on cgc all have slight work and have blue labels.The question is [how much slight resto] knocks it from blue to purple label..The mile high adventure 40 has slight resto but a purple label for example..What is the borderline of slight resto that knocks it over into a plod is the question with these slight resto books.this is the issue...

[PovertyRow]

Well, slight color touches do get a blue label. Allstar 3 mile high,more fun 52 mile high,the 7.5 action 1 on cgc all have slight work and have blue labels.The question is [how much slight resto] knocks it from blue to purple label..The mile high adventure 40 has slight resto but a purple label for example..What is the borderline of slight resto that knocks it over into a plod is the question with these slight resto books.this is the issue...

 

Yes, the whole GA thing is just adding mud to the muddle. Not only slight CT can get a Blue but, as I recall, small drop of glue can get a blue. But in SA or later? I would venture these would be purple.

[action1kid]

Yes, unfortunatly while golden age still has a stigma with resto, to silver age books resto is considered poison.Restoration hurts silver age books far far more[price wise]than they do a golden age book.That is a fact i have observed over and over.

[action1kid]

for example a 9.4 amazing fantasy15 with slight color touch would get crushed [price wise] as compared to a golden age key with the same amount of work.silverage resto at this time is not tolorated in this hobby at this time