MOST WATCHED TOOL

[Sharkey]

There is a great notation at the bottom of the page. I guess Stan wrote it.

It says "Lets team up" -- i.e. - Kirby should draw a page where they decide to team up in the end and Kirby came up with the panels.

Does anyone else think that Hulk looks 'odd' in the last two panels compared to the top left panel? It does not look like Kirby Hulk in those panels. It looks more like the inker there.

Has anyone else seen the 1st page splash for this issue? For some reason Sub-Mariner was missing so the owner had an artist draw Sub-Mariner ON THE ART BOARD - I never understood why they simply didn't have the artist draw one on a stat and paste that on...

 

Yeah, I saw that splash -- I think it was listed on ComicLink for a while in their original art area.

The price on it was reasonable given that Subby was missing (I think the asking price was in the $9k range), but I think a lot of people didn't want it because of the feeling that it'd been "defaced" by another artist. Sad, really.

 

As far as the inking and art, there is some inconsistency in the quality and inking of some of the pages of the issue. Reinman is not considered one of Jack's best inkers, and I do think he was hit-and-miss on some issues. But even so, this is a historic issue and one of the few Avengers issues that Jack penciled. Event the inks on some of the early FFs are not clean and consistent. The styles were still evolving and Marvel was still struggling with quality and consistency as it expanded their line of titles. But they are still classics.

[westform]

by the way, Subby wasn't missing on the splash- he was a stat. Looked fine; it's a damn shame it was ruined. That was a piece I would have wanted but now have no interest in. DF

[Sharkey]

by the way, Subby wasn't missing on the splash- he was a stat. Looked fine; it's a damn shame it was ruined. That was a piece I would have wanted but now have no interest in. DF

 

Oh ok, for some reason I thought that the stat was missing so they had the image drawn on. Didn't realize they had the freakin' stat. Aye yi yi!!!

[dem1138]

If I remember correctly - that page was 'unveiled' by a dealer at a Carbonaro NYC show. The dealer seemed to be proud of the recreation - but I thought it was ridiculous to have been done. Does anyone know the dealer? He's at a lot of shows, I've seen him around for almost 20 years and he still hasn't aged a day -- he's a 'unique' individual - sometimes puts his feet up on his table(with his shoes off) - he always has TONS of Golden Age and only recently (in the last few years) has he started selling OA(to my knowlegde as I never remember seeing it at his table when I was younger) - and his grading/prices are always a bit "off" shall we say...WHO is that guy?

[Mister Trent]

There is a great notation at the bottom of the page. I guess Stan wrote it.

It says "Lets team up" -- i.e. - Kirby should draw a page where they decide to team up in the end and Kirby came up with the panels.

Does anyone else think that Hulk looks 'odd' in the last two panels compared to the top left panel? It does not look like Kirby Hulk in those panels. It looks more like the inker there.

Has anyone else seen the 1st page splash for this issue? For some reason Sub-Mariner was missing so the owner had an artist draw Sub-Mariner ON THE ART BOARD - I never understood why they simply didn't have the artist draw one on a stat and paste that on...

 

Forget the exact details, but the splash belonged to UK collector named Clem So at one time. I think it might have been Clem who had Subby drawn on the art - anyone able to confirm or otherwise?

[westform]

I believe we are talking about Bechara Malouf. He also showed me the splash post facto and was proud of the work. I told him it looked like a piece of [embarrassing lack of self control] and that now I had no interest in it, and you could see the blood drain from his face. I still like Bechara and have done deals with him, but what a lapse in judgement. He may not have made the decision though, as I believe he and Bill Hughes owned/own that piece together. Also, a guy I have done plenty of up and up deals with. And, maybe neither of them made the actual decision... kinda murky. Of course, 20 years from now, will anyone be around to remember that it was redrawn and not the original?? With OA as with all collectibles... keep your eyes wide open folks, it's a jungle out there....

[Mister Trent]

I believe we are talking about Bechara Malouf. He also showed me the splash post facto and was proud of the work. I told him it looked like a piece of [embarrassing lack of self control] and that now I had no interest in it, and you could see the blood drain from his face. I still like Bechara and have done deals with him, but what a lapse in judgement. He may not have made the decision though, as I believe he and Bill Hughes owned/own that piece together. Also, a guy I have done plenty of up and up deals with. And, maybe neither of them made the actual decision... kinda murky. Of course, 20 years from now, will anyone be around to remember that it was redrawn and not the original?? With OA as with all collectibles... keep your eyes wide open folks, it's a jungle out there....

 

Hey Dan

 

I'm pretty sure Clem So (a former owner) played a part in having the AVENGERS # 3 splash . . . defaced (?). I'll e-mail Clem to ask for clarification. As soon as I hear back from him I'll provide any further info.

[Mister Trent]

I believe we are talking about Bechara Malouf. He also showed me the splash post facto and was proud of the work. I told him it looked like a piece of [embarrassing lack of self control] and that now I had no interest in it, and you could see the blood drain from his face. I still like Bechara and have done deals with him, but what a lapse in judgement. He may not have made the decision though, as I believe he and Bill Hughes owned/own that piece together. Also, a guy I have done plenty of up and up deals with. And, maybe neither of them made the actual decision... kinda murky. Of course, 20 years from now, will anyone be around to remember that it was redrawn and not the original?? With OA as with all collectibles... keep your eyes wide open folks, it's a jungle out there....

 

Hey Dan

 

I'm pretty sure Clem So (a former owner) played a part in having the AVENGERS # 3 splash . . . defaced (?). I'll e-mail Clem to ask for clarification. As soon as I hear back from him I'll provide any further info.

 

I've now heard from Clem who tells me that while he owned the splash, at one time, he was toying with the idea of having the image of Subby re-created directly onto the art to replace the stat. Ultimately, he decided against it - so the defacement was the fault of the dealer he traded it to.

[clemso]

I believe we are talking about Bechara Malouf. He also showed me the splash post facto and was proud of the work. I told him it looked like a piece of [embarrassing lack of self control] and that now I had no interest in it, and you could see the blood drain from his face. I still like Bechara and have done deals with him, but what a lapse in judgement. He may not have made the decision though, as I believe he and Bill Hughes owned/own that piece together. Also, a guy I have done plenty of up and up deals with. And, maybe neither of them made the actual decision... kinda murky. Of course, 20 years from now, will anyone be around to remember that it was redrawn and not the original?? With OA as with all collectibles... keep your eyes wide open folks, it's a jungle out there....

 

Hey Dan

 

I'm pretty sure Clem So (a former owner) played a part in having the AVENGERS # 3 splash . . . defaced (?). I'll e-mail Clem to ask for clarification. As soon as I hear back from him I'll provide any further info.

 

I've now heard from Clem who tells me that while he owned the splash, at one time, he was toying with the idea of having the image of Subby re-created directly onto the art to replace the stat. Ultimately, he decided against it - so the defacement was the fault of the dealer he traded it to.

 

Thanks for clarifying Terry. Just to add that when I owned the Avengers splash. I was thinking Ayers or Chic Stone (both Kirby Avengers inkers). At that time Chic was doing some impressive cover recreations and I remembered how good his Subby looked on the recreation for X-Men 6. Needless to say it never went beyond a thought. Its a shame that that splash will now be remembered for a defacement by unknown artists. I always loved that splash and even with the Subby stat. It had a real cinematic poster quality about it. For the right price/trade Bechara, if your out there. I would still have it back as long as you still have the original stat.

 

Clem.... Hey my first post to the board.

[heartened]

Hey Clem,

 

Welcome a-board

[Mister Trent]

I've now heard from Clem who tells me that while he owned the splash, at one time, he was toying with the idea of having the image of Subby re-created directly onto the art to replace the stat. Ultimately, he decided against it - so the defacement was the fault of the dealer he traded it to.

 

Thanks for clarifying Terry. Just to add that when I owned the Avengers splash. I was thinking Ayers or Chic Stone (both Kirby Avengers inkers). At that time Chic was doing some impressive cover recreations and I remembered how good his Subby looked on the recreation for X-Men 6. Needless to say it never went beyond a thought. Its a shame that that splash will now be remembered for a defacement by unknown artists. I always loved that splash and even with the Subby stat. It had a real cinematic poster quality about it. For the right price/trade Bechara, if your out there. I would still have it back as long as you still have the original stat.

 

Clem.... Hey my first post to the board.

 

Welcome aboard, Clem, and apologies for casting you in any bad light. I remember at one time you were talking (probably on comicart-l) about having the AVENGERS # 3 splash altered :, which was several years back, and you've now confirmed didn't go beyond the idea stage. The defacement did eventually happen - but not at your command!

[clemso]

Wow! That's a lot for an Avengers 3 page. But, it is a classic, battle page and is, in fact, the page where the two of them agree to team up. So, pretty historic.

 

All of this classic early Silver Age art is going up in price rapidly these days; the Kirby market in particular is rightfully heating up.

 

Congrats to the winner, who happens to be a good friend of mine, and a great guy.

 

Best,

 

I think that Avengers 3 pg was easy worth the $6K. There are not many vintage Kirby pages out there where two well know Marvel characters go toe to toe. Granted. Avengers 3 had some better pages, but only just.

Just a side note to add re: Avengers 3 splash. The SubMariner stat was taken from a house ad in Avengers 2. The art exists and was featured in a Christies auction. Not sure who inked the house ad though. It was an incredible piece of art.

 

Clem..

[Stronguy]

Wow! That's a lot for an Avengers 3 page. But, it is a classic, battle page and is, in fact, the page where the two of them agree to team up. So, pretty historic.

 

All of this classic early Silver Age art is going up in price rapidly these days; the Kirby market in particular is rightfully heating up.

 

Congrats to the winner, who happens to be a good friend of mine, and a great guy.

 

Best,

 

I think that Avengers 3 pg was easy worth the $6K. There are not many vintage Kirby pages out there where two well know Marvel characters go toe to toe. Granted. Avengers 3 had some better pages, but only just.

Just a side note to add re: Avengers 3 splash. The SubMariner stat was taken from a house ad in Avengers 2. The art exists and was featured in a Christies auction. Not sure who inked the house ad though. It was an incredible piece of art.

 

Clem..

 

Bachara showed that page to me at MegaCon 2003. He was going on and on about what a great job the artist did recreating Subby. He did have the stat with him so they were together as recently as Feb. 2003.

 

Like most people, I almost threw up when he told me someone (a nobody) inked directly on the page. The best part was he was asking $30k for it. Of course that's Bachara dollars. Several months later I saw it up for sale on ComicLink for $15k (I think). Dunno if it ever sold.