Commentary - CGC Should Change Its Name To "Comics Grading, LLC"

[Aman619]

POV - - we anti-pressing guys will just never win the battle. Many people arent bothered by it, AND, worse, CGC says its not restoration. So, as far as I can see, the game is just about over on pressing. Which annoys me, sickens me, frustrates me cause its so obviously restoration, and worries me about the continued slippage in our hobby.

[PovertyRow]

Would you two stop with the light liquor. Let's get serious.

 

Anisette is not a liqur but a liquer - Foolio!

 

I prefer to lick her, but hey whatever.

 

Poker is a good game too. (oh gawd did I just say that?)

[Deathlok]

Would you two stop with the light liquor. Let's get serious.

 

Anisette is not a liqur but a liquer - Foolio!

 

I prefer to lick her, but hey whatever.

 

Poker is a good game too. (oh gawd did I just say that?)

 

...and the hits keep on coming.

[PovertyRow]

Would you two stop with the light liquor. Let's get serious.

 

Anisette is not a liqur but a liquer - Foolio!

 

I prefer to lick her, but hey whatever.

 

Poker is a good game too. (oh gawd did I just say that?)

 

...and the hits keep on coming.

 

Yes, they just keep on...err....nevermind.

[Deathlok]

Would you two stop with the light liquor. Let's get serious.

 

Anisette is not a liqur but a liquer - Foolio!

 

I prefer to lick her, but hey whatever.

 

Poker is a good game too. (oh gawd did I just say that?)

 

...and the hits keep on coming.

 

Yes, they just keep on...err....nevermind.

[esquirecomics]

 

ARRGHHH - I MEANT to say But both pressing and trimming sure as hell improve the appearance and the upgradability if done right. But I left off the "and trimming". So I corrected it but it is not in your quote as I corrected it after your quote.

 

What are you talking about Pov? Is too.

 

Is not!

 

Yea is!

[PovertyRow]

 

ARRGHHH - I MEANT to say But both pressing and trimming sure as hell improve the appearance and the upgradability if done right. But I left off the "and trimming". So I corrected it but it is not in your quote as I corrected it after your quote.

 

What are you talking about Pov? Is too.

 

Is not!

 

Yea is!

 

Read back!

[4GEMWORKS]

Etymology: Middle French garantie, from Old French, from garantir to guarantee, from garant warrant, of Germanic origin; akin to Old High German werento guarantor -- more at WARRANT : an undertaking to answer for the payment of a debt or the performance of a duty of another in case of the other's default or miscarriage

2 : GUARANTEE

3 : GUARANTOR

4 : something given as security : PLEDGE

5 : the protection of a right afforded by legal provision (as in a constitution).

 

Essentially, in layman’s terms, to provide a “guaranty” means to stand behind your work or services. Does CGC do that? The uniformed might think so. But from what I can tell the only guarantee that CGC provides is to advertise its promotional rhetoric. Why do I proclaim that? Let’s examine CGC’s statements and claims.

 

 

I left these boards long ago under another name and not only have been away for a long time, but haven't really missed the boards much at all. What brought me back was the newsletter from GPA that linked to the Jason Ewertt story, which I did find interesting. I think it is to the credit of many that much was uncovered. The episode as a whole will undoubtedly benefit the commerce in the comic book trade where graded books are concerned.

 

Sometimes, though, I think things go further in a direction than is either needed or warranted. Perhaps I'm wrong, but it seems to me that the core reputation of CGC is being questioned by many. That is the prerogative of any consumer. That being said, I had found, during my period on these boards that many posting members were critical of CGC from the start, on the very boards that CGC put up for their use with no censorship of any consequence that I could ever determine.

 

This particular thread, questioning the "guarantees" provided by CGC, I find particularly troubling as it implies that not only does CGC not actually guarantee anything, it promotes the idea that it guarantees that which it does not.

 

I disagree quite strongly. Let me enter an alternate definition of guarantee from Merriam-Webster on-line unabridged dictionary:

 

>> 3 a : an agreement by which one person undertakes to secure another in the possession or enjoyment of something b : an expressed or implied assurance of the quality of goods offered for sale or the length of satisfactory use to be expected from a product <<

 

This is what I believe CGC guarantees. I think it easily falls within the scope of the above definition.

 

1) They will guarantee to have your comic book, graded by at least three individuals that they deem "expert".

2) They will guarantee a "best efforts" process of detecting restoration.

3) They will guarantee the quality of the holder. I believe if they damage the comic in the process of encapsulation, they do guarantee to make the submitter financially whole.

 

 

What they do not guarantee is just about everything else. Among other things they do NOT guarantee are the following

 

1) They don't guarantee that restoration will never be found on the book after it leaves CGC

2) They do not guarantee that a market will exist for CGC graded books

3) They do not guarantee that you or anybody else will agree with the grade they assign

4) They do not guarantee that unscrupulous buyers or sellers will not crack slabs, try to doctor, resubmit or otherwise try to lie cheat and steal their way into higher graded blue universal label books.

 

I think the entire post misses the mark with respect to the utility of CGC. I for one think they have done an excellent job of grading books and have actually brought Overstreet standards to life, versus the ungraded market on places like eBay where 20-25% overgrading is run of the mill.

 

I think what you need to ask yourself is this: Is the comic book market place better with or without a place like CGC?

 

One can bring up restoration as an issue and make that their siren song for the unreliability, rise and fall of CGC.

 

The facts, as I under stand them, (I must emphasize that much of my understanding is anecdotal in nature) is that prior to CGC restoration was not only relatively widespread, but it went almost entirely undetected.

 

Let's assume for the sake of argument that CGC only caught 70% of restoration and I will say I think they catch a LOT MORE, would one argue that CGC is now providing a disservice since they missed 30% where nearly 100% previously went undetected? Heaven forbid.

 

I think if folks have a problem with CGC they should simply exercise their right as a consumer not to participate in this particular market. Perhaps prices will drop and I'll benefit from the comics I will certainly be willing to continue to buy.

 

Let's summarize the options for collectors:

 

1) Understand that CGC cannot guarantee everything that some collectors would like and continue to utilize the services of this 3rd part grading service

2) Discontinue using the services of CGC in favor of competitors like PGX

3) Deal exclusively in ungraded comics...plenty of sellers of ungraded comics on eBay do offer a 100% no questions asked return policy, if a solid guarantee is something you like.

4) Get out of the hobby

 

Lastly on the question of a restoration service like PCS, I simply have to ask...So what? For years if you have had a question about restoration or providers of restoration, Steve Borock has been happy to refer to folks the names of folks that will help you out. I had several comics "unrestored" and got the names from Steve. If Friesen wants to go out on his own and perform restoration that is his prerogative. If CGC continues to feel it is in their interest to contract with him, why would anyone care?

 

The answer is simple. What folks might really fear is that CGC itself might send books to PCS , have them "restored" and then issue a restored book with a universal label, where somebody, perhaps CGC itself could fraudulently benefit.

 

CGC is not the only restoration detection business in town. IF this ever happened and IF it were discovered, by alternate restoration experts, that CGC did anything even remotely shady and in a detectable pattern, their business would be in ruins overnight

 

I don't think anything even remotely close to this has been suggested as actually occurring. I happen to think the guys at CGC are good guys. Perhaps I will be proven wrong. If so it will be to the financial ruin of my collection, I am sure. As of now, I, at least, am willing to give CGC the benefit of the doubt.

 

That being said, I do believe that CGC should be forthright in explaining the exact relationship that PCS has and will have with CGC in the future. Transparency here would, of course be important. Ultimately the consumer will rule. If folks decide they do not like this type of combination they will stop doing business with CGC. Ultimately CGC would have to decide if the added business from PCS was with the loss of grading submissions.

 

One brief analogy would be that of an automobile dealership that sells used cars. Does the fact that the dealer has an onsite repair facility, create a conflict of interest? One could infer that the dealer expected their cars to have problems once sold. One might even infer that the repair shop doctored problems so as not to be evident when cars were sold.

 

This analogy certainly is not exact and many will have a field day with it, I’m sure. But the fact is that many business’s have both sales and service. One cannot neccassarily infer that the existence of a “service” center implies wrongdoing at the “sales” center.

 

I'm not saying that important points which contradict my viewpoint do not have merit. All I'm saying is let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater.

 

But in summary: Let's not try and discredit the word guarantee in the name of CGC. They offer several guarantees, as noted above, which make the submission fee I pay with each comic value added.

 

Not an apologist, just a realist.

 

Glenn E. Malloy…4Gemworks Comic Book Emporium

[esquirecomics]

I still say pressing is a bigger issue and deserves a lot more press than the trimming issue. Few can trim to avoid detection. Many can press to avoid detection. Interesting thing: in some circles trimming is NOT considered restoration as it does not bring a book back to original condition., and pressing is not considered restoration because it does not add anything to a book. But both pressing and trimming sure as hell improve the appearance and the upgradability if done right.

 

See. You are delusional. Must be drinking too much Annisette.

[PovertyRow]

I still say pressing is a bigger issue and deserves a lot more press than the trimming issue. Few can trim to avoid detection. Many can press to avoid detection. Interesting thing: in some circles trimming is NOT considered restoration as it does not bring a book back to original condition., and pressing is not considered restoration because it does not add anything to a book. But both pressing and trimming sure as hell improve the appearance and the upgradability if done right.

 

See. You are delusional. Must be drinking too much Annisette.

 

You quoted yourself. I have not drunk ENOUGH anisette!

[esquirecomics]

I still say pressing is a bigger issue and deserves a lot more press than the trimming issue. Few can trim to avoid detection. Many can press to avoid detection. Interesting thing: in some circles trimming is NOT considered restoration as it does not bring a book back to original condition., and pressing is not considered restoration because it does not add anything to a book. But both pressing and trimming sure as hell improve the appearance and the upgradability if done right.

 

See. You are delusional. Must be drinking too much Annisette.

 

You quoted yourself. I have not drunk ENOUGH anisette!

 

I quoted myself quoting you! Geez, I feel like Greggy or Darth now.

 

My thread has spiraled into [embarrassing lack of self control]!

[Deathlok]

I still say pressing is a bigger issue and deserves a lot more press than the trimming issue. Few can trim to avoid detection. Many can press to avoid detection. Interesting thing: in some circles trimming is NOT considered restoration as it does not bring a book back to original condition., and pressing is not considered restoration because it does not add anything to a book. But both pressing and trimming sure as hell improve the appearance and the upgradability if done right.

 

See. You are delusional. Must be drinking too much Annisette.

 

You quoted yourself. I have not drunk ENOUGH anisette!

 

I quoted myself quoting you! Geez, I feel like Greggy or Darth now.

 

My thread has spiraled into [embarrassing lack of self control]!

[greggy]

I still say pressing is a bigger issue and deserves a lot more press than the trimming issue. Few can trim to avoid detection. Many can press to avoid detection. Interesting thing: in some circles trimming is NOT considered restoration as it does not bring a book back to original condition., and pressing is not considered restoration because it does not add anything to a book. But both pressing and trimming sure as hell improve the appearance and the upgradability if done right.

 

See. You are delusional. Must be drinking too much Annisette.

 

You quoted yourself. I have not drunk ENOUGH anisette!

 

I quoted myself quoting you! Geez, I feel like Greggy or Darth now.

 

My thread has spiraled into [embarrassing lack of self control]!

[Deathlok]

I still say pressing is a bigger issue and deserves a lot more press than the trimming issue. Few can trim to avoid detection. Many can press to avoid detection. Interesting thing: in some circles trimming is NOT considered restoration as it does not bring a book back to original condition., and pressing is not considered restoration because it does not add anything to a book. But both pressing and trimming sure as hell improve the appearance and the upgradability if done right.

 

See. You are delusional. Must be drinking too much Annisette.

 

You quoted yourself. I have not drunk ENOUGH anisette!

 

I quoted myself quoting you! Geez, I feel like Greggy or Darth now.

 

My thread has spiraled into [embarrassing lack of self control]!

[greggy]

I still say pressing is a bigger issue and deserves a lot more press than the trimming issue. Few can trim to avoid detection. Many can press to avoid detection. Interesting thing: in some circles trimming is NOT considered restoration as it does not bring a book back to original condition., and pressing is not considered restoration because it does not add anything to a book. But both pressing and trimming sure as hell improve the appearance and the upgradability if done right.

 

See. You are delusional. Must be drinking too much Annisette.

 

You quoted yourself. I have not drunk ENOUGH anisette!

 

I quoted myself quoting you! Geez, I feel like Greggy or Darth now.

 

My thread has spiraled into [embarrassing lack of self control]!

[Deathlok]

I still say pressing is a bigger issue and deserves a lot more press than the trimming issue. Few can trim to avoid detection. Many can press to avoid detection. Interesting thing: in some circles trimming is NOT considered restoration as it does not bring a book back to original condition., and pressing is not considered restoration because it does not add anything to a book. But both pressing and trimming sure as hell improve the appearance and the upgradability if done right.

 

See. You are delusional. Must be drinking too much Annisette.

 

You quoted yourself. I have not drunk ENOUGH anisette!

 

I quoted myself quoting you! Geez, I feel like Greggy or Darth now.

 

My thread has spiraled into [embarrassing lack of self control]!

[greggy]

I still say pressing is a bigger issue and deserves a lot more press than the trimming issue. Few can trim to avoid detection. Many can press to avoid detection. Interesting thing: in some circles trimming is NOT considered restoration as it does not bring a book back to original condition., and pressing is not considered restoration because it does not add anything to a book. But both pressing and trimming sure as hell improve the appearance and the upgradability if done right.

 

See. You are delusional. Must be drinking too much Annisette.

 

You quoted yourself. I have not drunk ENOUGH anisette!

 

I quoted myself quoting you! Geez, I feel like Greggy or Darth now.

 

My thread has spiraled into [embarrassing lack of self control]!

[Deathlok]

I still say pressing is a bigger issue and deserves a lot more press than the trimming issue. Few can trim to avoid detection. Many can press to avoid detection. Interesting thing: in some circles trimming is NOT considered restoration as it does not bring a book back to original condition., and pressing is not considered restoration because it does not add anything to a book. But both pressing and trimming sure as hell improve the appearance and the upgradability if done right.

 

See. You are delusional. Must be drinking too much Annisette.

 

You quoted yourself. I have not drunk ENOUGH anisette!

 

I quoted myself quoting you! Geez, I feel like Greggy or Darth now.

 

My thread has spiraled into [embarrassing lack of self control]!

[greggy]

I still say pressing is a bigger issue and deserves a lot more press than the trimming issue. Few can trim to avoid detection. Many can press to avoid detection. Interesting thing: in some circles trimming is NOT considered restoration as it does not bring a book back to original condition., and pressing is not considered restoration because it does not add anything to a book. But both pressing and trimming sure as hell improve the appearance and the upgradability if done right.

 

See. You are delusional. Must be drinking too much Annisette.

 

You quoted yourself. I have not drunk ENOUGH anisette!

 

I quoted myself quoting you! Geez, I feel like Greggy or Darth now.

 

My thread has spiraled into [embarrassing lack of self control]!

[Deathlok]

I still say pressing is a bigger issue and deserves a lot more press than the trimming issue. Few can trim to avoid detection. Many can press to avoid detection. Interesting thing: in some circles trimming is NOT considered restoration as it does not bring a book back to original condition., and pressing is not considered restoration because it does not add anything to a book. But both pressing and trimming sure as hell improve the appearance and the upgradability if done right.

 

See. You are delusional. Must be drinking too much Annisette.

 

You quoted yourself. I have not drunk ENOUGH anisette!

 

I quoted myself quoting you! Geez, I feel like Greggy or Darth now.

 

My thread has spiraled into [embarrassing lack of self control]!