"These'll pay for my kid's college..." 5 5

[Ablation Steve]

In articles about the speculation in the early 90s, many articles mock the new comic buyers by saying they thought that "buying these will put my kid through college."

At the time I was 18, and I bought into a lot of it (though I was already a collector). My whole paycheck went into Death of Superman, Spawn 1, Spider-Man 1, X-Force 1, X-Men 1, Spider-Man 2099. I've made a couple thousand dollars slabbing and selling X-Men 1, same with Spawn 1-5, same with Spider-Man 1-13, Lethal Protector, Spider-Man 2099 and ASM 365. Even made a few bucks on Superman and Knightfall and Wildcats. Some money from post-Unity Valiant variants. Even if I only see $60 returns on something like an X-Men 1 9.8, I'm doing that in bulk because I bought in bulk, and it actually adds up.

And now I have a kid who's 18, and he's in college — so it seems like a good time for a check-in. If I do a rough tally...the idea of speculation comics paying for college wasn't so far off. If college stayed on track with inflation (instead of rising about 4X inflation), yes, I'd have at least a couple of years of college paid for. Tuition rising so much more than inflation was the only thing that got in the way.

If slabbing hadn't come along, it's true, I'd have never made my money back. But I've lucked out with the current situation, and so could have everyone else who was roped in by the speculation, so long as they didn't dump and kept everything in good shape. Yes, it took nearly 30 years, but that's typical for nostalgia to kick in. (And true, it took a lot of time and work and moving dozens of long boxes across the country to ensure I made a profit.)

Just putting this here to start a conversation...curious as to your take.

[lou_fine]

On 12/21/2021 at 9:49 AM, Ablation Steve said:

And now I have a kid who's 18, and he's in college — so it seems like a good time for a check-in. If I do a rough tally...the idea of speculation comics paying for college wasn't so far off. If college stayed on track with inflation (instead of rising about 4X inflation), yes, I'd have at least a couple of years of college paid for. Tuition rising so much more than inflation was the only thing that got in the way.

To tell you the honest truth here, I am actually kind of shock that you made enough moolah to pay for a couple years of college tuition fees (even if prior to inflation) from these early 90's way overprinted comic book titles.  Especially after factoring in the cost for grading and selling fees along with all of the other ancillary costs to sell a book.  

Now, if it was from an earlier time period like GA, SA, or even a couple of the HG keys from the BA, then I could definitely see that happening. 

[KCOComics]

 

In the early 90s when I was 10 - 12 years old,  my father took me to a comic show because he had a coworker who had a booth. 

It was a small show, (No San Diego comiccon), but it was crowded. My dad's coworker pulled out a copy of ASM #1 and said those very words to us. This is going to pay for my kids college. 

I couldn't tell you the grade. If it was restored or any of those important details.... I was just a kid. I do remember feeling like I was looking at some long lost treasure. And if it was in high enough grade,  it could probably put a kid through most colleges. 

[MattTheDuck]

Back in the day (the 1970s) I was buying Silver and Bronze and we would think/say the same kind of things - "these will be worth $1 million some day!*"  For the "right" issues, of course, this actually came to pass, but if you'd told me one of the "right ones" would be IH 181 I'd have thought you were nuts.  How could a character I didn't even like be worth anything?

Same with ASM 129 - in my mind at the time it was ASM 121 that had value.  Just goes to show, trying to guess what will be worth anything is a carp shoot.

* Note I don't literally mean every issue would be worth $1 million.  It was a metaphor.

[WolverineX]

On 12/21/2021 at 1:00 PM, KCOComics said:

 

In the early 90s when I was 10 - 12 years old,  my father took me to a comic show because he had a coworker who had a booth. 

It was a small show, (No San Diego comiccon), but it was crowded. My dad's coworker pulled out a copy of ASM #1 and said those very words to us. This is going to pay for my kids college. 

I couldn't tell you the grade. If it was restored or any of those important details.... I was just a kid. I do remember feeling like I was looking at some long lost treasure. And if it was in high enough grade,  it could probably put a kid through most colleges. 

Unless it's a very high-grade copy,  I don't know if it could really pay off 4 years of a private school college education

[WolverineX]

For a private school, how much are we looking at these days anyway for 4 years? $250,000 or $300,000?

 

Not maybe single books could hit those numbers... 

[thesink]

Does anyone believe people when they say things like this?

Quote

At the time I was 18, and I bought into a lot of it (though I was already a collector). My whole paycheck went into Death of Superman, Spawn 1, Spider-Man 1, X-Force 1, X-Men 1, Spider-Man 2099. I've made a couple thousand dollars slabbing and selling X-Men 1, same with Spawn 1-5, same with Spider-Man 1-13, Lethal Protector, Spider-Man 2099 and ASM 365. Even made a few bucks on Superman and Knightfall and Wildcats. Some money from post-Unity Valiant variants. Even if I only see $60 returns on something like an X-Men 1 9.8, I'm doing that in bulk because I bought in bulk, and it actually adds up

I mean I understand if this person bought 1 copy of a lot of different books, but to buy "in bulk" that many copies of essentially all "speculator" books they would need to have kept a warehouse for 30 years. Also, they would still have so many copies of 3-5 dollar books that they cannot ship out for a profit. There is no way that this is profitable.

[ThothAmon]

Two kids in college and sales of long ago comic book speculation has definitely softened the blow. Delays at CGC aren’t helpful. 

[BigLeagueCHEW]

On 12/21/2021 at 10:34 AM, thesink said:

Does anyone believe people when they say things like this?

I mean I understand if this person bought 1 copy of a lot of different books, but to buy "in bulk" that many copies of essentially all "speculator" books they would need to have kept a warehouse for 30 years. Also, they would still have so many copies of 3-5 dollar books that they cannot ship out for a profit. There is no way that this is profitable.

If it's not in 9.8, then it would be useless to expect a profit on 90s crud. If the OP mentioned ASM 361, and NM 98 then I can see this.

[CHASEnBLUE]

On 12/21/2021 at 10:34 AM, thesink said:

Does anyone believe people when they say things like this?

I mean I understand if this person bought 1 copy of a lot of different books, but to buy "in bulk" that many copies of essentially all "speculator" books they would need to have kept a warehouse for 30 years. Also, they would still have so many copies of 3-5 dollar books that they cannot ship out for a profit. There is no way that this is profitable.

Well, I've made a sh*t ton grading some of the dozens of these same titles and more that I've had since I first bought them and picked up more throughout the years. Rough math: $1 to $3 comic, $25 for slab with shipping costs, 9.8 sells for $80 to $100 or more. I'd say that is a profit...

[BigLeagueCHEW]

On 12/21/2021 at 10:42 AM, CHASEnBLUE said:

Well, I've made a sh*t ton grading some of the dozens of these same titles and more that I've had since I first bought them and picked up more throughout the years. Rough math: $1 to $3 comic, $25 for slab with shipping costs, 9.8 sells for $80 to $100 or more. I'd say that is a profit...

what about seller fees, and shipping out to the party? What about a loss if not in 9.8. Assuming you did pre-screen.

[lizards2]

On 12/21/2021 at 10:49 AM, BigLeagueCHEW said:

On 12/21/2021 at 10:42 AM, CHASEnBLUE said:

Well, I've made a sh*t ton grading some of the dozens of these same titles and more that I've had since I first bought them and picked up more throughout the years. Rough math: $1 to $3 comic, $25 for slab with shipping costs, 9.8 sells for $80 to $100 or more. I'd say that is a profit...

what about seller fees, and shipping out to the party? What about a loss if not in 9.8. Assuming you did pre-screen.

And capital gains taxes?

[Ryan.]

On 12/21/2021 at 1:51 PM, lizards2 said:

And capital gains taxes?

Everyone still seems to be pretending these don't exist.

[WolverineX]

On 12/21/2021 at 1:51 PM, lizards2 said:

And capital gains taxes?

529b is sounding better and better 

[Ablation Steve]

On 12/21/2021 at 11:34 AM, thesink said:

Does anyone believe people when they say things like this?

I mean I understand if this person bought 1 copy of a lot of different books, but to buy "in bulk" that many copies of essentially all "speculator" books they would need to have kept a warehouse for 30 years. Also, they would still have so many copies of 3-5 dollar books that they cannot ship out for a profit. There is no way that this is profitable.

I bought 51 copies of X-Men #1. Let's say $30 of that went into slabbing and ebay fees and taxes, sell for $100 and I'm making $70. $70 X 51 is $3500 just for those. Spider-Man 2099 #1 is now $250, but unfortunately I only bought five of those. 10 Spawn #1, even after fees and slabbing, can get you $2000 today. That's just a square foot of space (in unslabbed form) that got me $6500. Average college would be around $13,000 a year if it followed normal inflation, so that's not a bad chunk from 66 books.

You don't need a warehouse, I've done all this on about 2 dozen long boxes (and yes, still have a bunch of drek...but the way things are going and how Marvel is launching series, everything will be valuable eventually! Cross your fingers for X-Force for me!)

Again, I know that the entire idea of slabbing was the only thing that made this happen (i.e. it didn't go the way I planned but it still happened anyway), and while people can scoff at people paying $100 for a common 9.8, that doesn't stop it from happening.

It's certainly not the efficient way to make money, but it's been fun as part of the hobby. I guess I just like challenging the idea of the foolish early 90s speculator. (Even though, in some ways, I was one)

Edited December 21, 2021 by Ablation Steve

[MAR1979]

I guess if you has enough of them that graded 9.8W you'd be able to make enough profit early in the COVID era to send 1 kid for for 2 years to a state college..  Still it would have to be a lot of books.  My guess is if a 5K had been put into a S&P 500 fund in the early 90's rather than dumped into a bunch of glut era comics you might be able to send 2 kids through a 4 year college, assuming state school

Over the long haul it's not easy to beat the S&P 500 and most don't.  It's why in Oct 2008  I took Buffet's advice and directed most of my then current and future (to this day) 401K in to S&P 500 and 400 funds.  That has proven to be a far more wiser choice than to buy up glut era comics.

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by MAR1979

[Qalyar]

I think condition is the real barrier for most holders of '90s bulk books. The typical estimate is that books off the LCS shelf -- especially in the pre-slabbing days when many LCS owners' idea of condition was much looser -- ended up 8.5-9.0. Having a couple long boxes of '90s "spec" fodder then required that you had access to a retailer who got 9.8-candidate copies from the distributors (which was hardly guaranteed), that the retailer themselves didn't damage the books in any way, and that you as the OO have stored them appropriately in the intervening 30 years.

For most of the people who bought into the '90s rush solely on investment grounds, I think it's likely that somewhere between one and all of those things are false.

[BigLeagueCHEW]

On 12/21/2021 at 9:49 AM, Ablation Steve said:

In articles about the speculation in the early 90s, many articles mock the new comic buyers by saying they thought that "buying these will put my kid through college."

At the time I was 18, and I bought into a lot of it (though I was already a collector). My whole paycheck went into Death of Superman, Spawn 1, Spider-Man 1, X-Force 1, X-Men 1, Spider-Man 2099. I've made a couple thousand dollars slabbing and selling X-Men 1, same with Spawn 1-5, same with Spider-Man 1-13, Lethal Protector, Spider-Man 2099 and ASM 365. Even made a few bucks on Superman and Knightfall and Wildcats. Some money from post-Unity Valiant variants. Even if I only see $60 returns on something like an X-Men 1 9.8, I'm doing that in bulk because I bought in bulk, and it actually adds up.

And now I have a kid who's 18, and he's in college — so it seems like a good time for a check-in. If I do a rough tally...the idea of speculation comics paying for college wasn't so far off. If college stayed on track with inflation (instead of rising about 4X inflation), yes, I'd have at least a couple of years of college paid for. Tuition rising so much more than inflation was the only thing that got in the way.

If slabbing hadn't come along, it's true, I'd have never made my money back. But I've lucked out with the current situation, and so could have everyone else who was roped in by the speculation, so long as they didn't dump and kept everything in good shape. Yes, it took nearly 30 years, but that's typical for nostalgia to kick in. (And true, it took a lot of time and work and moving dozens of long boxes across the country to ensure I made a profit.)

Just putting this here to start a conversation...curious as to your take.

Please factor in CGC costs:

CGC membership fee

Submission form fee

Packaging cost

Shipping cost to CGC

Grading, or press and grade fees, loss of pre-screen if less than 9.8

Return shipping cost to you

Then as a seller:

Depending on what auction site you listed on (Fees for selling) Selling fee and any returns from buyers

Cost of paper and ink to print labels to buyers

Packaging material cost to buyers

Your time and effort at a standard rate (This is the biggest loss in your claimed profit)

Cost to drive to the post office, gas, wear and tear on vehicle, etc

Capital gains tax

I am sure I am missing something.

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by BigLeagueCHEW

[MAR1979]

  

On 12/21/2021 at 2:07 PM, Qalyar said:

I think condition is the real barrier for most holders of '90s bulk books. The typical estimate is that books off the LCS shelf -- especially in the pre-slabbing days when many LCS owners' idea of condition was much looser -- ended up 8.5-9.0. Having a couple long boxes of '90s "spec" fodder then required that you had access to a retailer who got 9.8-candidate copies from the distributors (which was hardly guaranteed), that the retailer themselves didn't damage the books in any way, and that you as the OO have stored them appropriately in the intervening 30 years.

For most of the people who bought into the '90s rush solely on investment grounds, I think it's likely that somewhere between one and all of those things are false.

 

Man you hit it right on head w/condition. Those few who read my postings know that I used to go to 3 Comic Shops on release day seeking what are now considered 9.8 books. Even doing that there were times I'd have to settle for lesser condition (considered 9.2-9.6 today). 

It was difficult even getting 1 or 2 copies of some books in 9.8, now imagine trying to find 50 or 100 locally?  It's certainly plausible but unlikely and a issue basis. If seeking bulk copies in 9.8, yeah you could get lucky on one book but strike out on 15 others...

 

Edited December 21, 2021 by MAR1979

[MAR1979]

On 12/21/2021 at 2:20 PM, BigLeagueCHEW said:

Please factor in CGC costs:

CGC membership fee

Submission form fee

Packaging cost

Shipping cost to CGC

Grading, or press and grade fees, loss of pre-screen if less than 9.8

Return shipping cost to you

Then as a seller:

Depending on what auction site you listed on (Fees for selling) Selling fee and any returns from buyers

Cost of paper and ink to print labels to buyers

Packaging material cost to buyers

Your time and effort at a standard rate (This is the biggest loss in your claimed profit)

Cost to drive to the post office, gas, wear and tear on vehicle, etc

Capital gains tax

I am sure I am missing something.

 

Yep a good list. I can also think of:

1) Possible storage costs over the years if applicable.  These could offset all profit depending on the situation.

2) Inflationary losses compounded since day of purchase. This applies until items are sold.  Depending on index used cumulative inflation from 1992-2021 (Jan 1) is 98.5%. When the 2021 numbers are determined expect that to jump to a minimum of 102%.  Every $2.00 on Dec 31, 1992 was equal to $3.96 on Jan 1 2021.

 

Many perceive a sale as all profit including some shop owners I knew, none of them are still in business. They simply did not understand a re-occurring expense for storage is not a substitute for steady continuous cash flow. Not sure if was hoarding mentality or just a total lack of business acumen.

 

 

Edited December 22, 2021 by MAR1979