Transformers (1984) #3 Never Before Seen (? Probably not) Fourth Print? 3 3

[Lazyboy]

On 10/31/2022 at 9:57 PM, Beyonder123 said:

@Lazyboy so, I had a bunch written out as a response, but the page refreshed and I lost most of it so I will keep it as brief as possible.

I'm not trying to argue about this, but simply understand it. I'm using this thread to better understand all the different printings of these books, when they were released, and how they were released. I'm sure we actually agree on most things about this. The big hangup is whether or not "Marvel Books" actually distributed these or rather some other distributor using the name. I'm inclined to believe the first, but all in all I don't think it's super important.

We both agree that the subsequent printings were only released in multipacks. We both agree on the release dates (I would assume), and we both agree that Curtis was not the distributor. 

As for my outlines, they aren't final or official and I'm sure they will change. I just want to know what combinations of multipacks existed and when they were released. Obviously some packs were re released, and there's some correlation between that and the printings (can we agree on that?) 

As for this being something new or unknown I think this really is something that is new and unknown to most people. CGC is recognizing other types of multipack editions and I think this should be noted too. I also think this would be a good resource for people who want to better understand them.

Yes, we agree on most of it.

It's an interesting topic, as are many such little things in comics history. I've never looked at it in depth before, mostly because I don't collect this stuff. Way back when I collected Transformers, my #1 was a third printing, and that's the extent of my personal connection to the subject.

[Beyonder123]

On 10/31/2022 at 9:52 PM, Lazyboy said:

Yup, there it is.

These are already recognized as the later printings they are. The multi-pack editions that CGC recognizes are first printings (just don't look too deep into the DCUs ) that differ from the standard edition, not reprints. These have no reason to be noted as such and I highly doubt CGC will do so.

Both Marvel "Whitmans" and DCU's had multiple printings. Why do these have no reason to be noted? Not even in key notes?

[Beyonder123]

I'm thinking something along the lines of "Second Print", and "Distributed in 3 Packs" in the key comments.

[Lazyboy]

On 11/1/2022 at 12:00 AM, Beyonder123 said:

Both Marvel "Whitmans"

Nope. (Okay, a few issues of Star Wars. Fine.)

On 11/1/2022 at 12:00 AM, Beyonder123 said:

and DCU's

Some.

On 11/1/2022 at 12:00 AM, Beyonder123 said:

had multiple printings. Why do these have no reason to be noted? Not even in key notes?

I'm pretty sure CGC isn't changing anything about their labeling or in their notes for things like reprints of Star Wars or the Doomsday story. The point was to differentiate things that were lumped together even though they aren't exactly the same. But it's not like CGC is consistent or predictable, so... ?

[Beyonder123]

On 10/31/2022 at 10:28 PM, Lazyboy said:

The point was to differentiate things that were lumped together even though they aren't exactly the same. But it's not like CGC is consistent or predictable, so... ?

This is the biggest problem. I've seen multiple submissions where people's newsstands haven't been noted since the change. They're super obvious and I don't think they necessarily need to be noted, but it is the new policy. And again the second and third prints sometimes get swapped if they even notice it's another printing. 

I just think it would help the average collector know what they have if they weren't informed on the subject. And perhaps the hobby as a whole would start taking note. Maybe at some point I'll create a poll.

But for now I think the next thing to research in regards to this subject would be to compile photos of the multipacks and try to differentiate all the printing combinations within.

[Beyonder123]

Someone who has 7 copies of #2 was able to look through and confirm the second and third prints of number 2 are noted in the indicia. Also the marvel checklists inside those issues align with my given dates.

He has 10 copies of #3 he will be going through later.

[Beyonder123]

Also I have located proof of a second print 7th issue. Very interestingly the advertisements are the same. This would seem to indicate they were released on the same month.

 

[Qalyar]

On 10/30/2022 at 11:05 PM, Beyonder123 said:

So I have just finished compiling a list of the first 9 issues which all have different printings (minus 4). As well as their front page ads, back cover ads, and back interior cover ads. I then matched these ads with their first print counterpart to come up with a release month. Basically just an upgraded version of the first list. Several interesting things popped up.

Transformers #1 - Inside Cover: Last Starfighter, Inside Back Cover: Muppets Take Manhattan, Back Cover: Star Wars (09/84)

Transformers #1 (Second Print) - Inside Cover: Gobots, Inside Back Cover: Indiana Jones, Back Cover: Risk (03/85)

Transformers #1 (Third Print) - Inside Cover: Rip Offs, Back Cover: Acne 12 (06/85)

Transformers #2 - Inside Cover: Mario Bros, Inside Back Cover: Dungeons and Dragons, Back Cover: Star Wars (11/84)

Transformers #2 (Second Print) - Risk (03/85)

Transformers #2 (Third Print) - Acne 12 (06/85)

Transformers #3 - Inside Cover: Mario Bros, Inside Back Cover: Dungeons And Dragons, Back Cover: Star Wars (11/84)

Transformers #3 - Inside Cover: Monogram, Inside Back Cover: Activision, Back Cover: Montezuma (01/85)

Transformers #3 (Second Print) - Risk (03/85)

Transformers #3 (Third Print) - Inside Cover: Rip Offs, Inside Back Cover: Star Comics, Back Cover: Acne 12 (06/85)

Transformers #4 - Inside Front Cover: Go Bots, Inside Back Cover: Indiana Jones, Back Cover: Risk (03/85)

Transformers #5 - Inside Cover: Rip Offs, Inside Back Cover: Star Comics, Back Cover: Acne 12 (06/85)

Transformers #5 - Inside Cover: Noxema, Inside Back Cover: Secret Wars II, Back Cover: Payday (08/85)

Transformers #6 - Inside Front Cover: Reeses Pieces, Inside Back Cover: Huffy, Back Cover: Astronaut (07/85)

Transformers #6 - Inside Cover: Noxema, Inside Back Cover: Secret Wars II, Back Cover: Pay Day (08/85)

Transformers #7 - Inside Cover: Noxema, Inside Back Cover: Secret Wars II, Back Cover: Pay Day (08/85)

Transformers #7 (Second Print) - Back Cover: Pay Day (08/85)

Transformers #7 (Third Print) - Inside Cover: Astronaut, Inside Back Cover: Bullpen Bullitins, Back Cover: Honeycomb (11/85)

Transformers #8 - Inside Cover: Secret Wars II, Inside Back Cover: Star Comics, Back Cover: Astronaut (09/85)

Transformers #8 (Second Print) - Inside Cover: Astronaut, Inside Back Cover: Bullpen Bullitins, Back Cover: Honeycomb (11/85)

Transformers #9 - Inside Cover: Astronaut, Inside Back Cover: Secret Wars II, Back Cover: Rip Offs (10/85)

Transformers #9 (Second Print) - Inside Cover: Astronaut, Inside Back Cover: Bullpen Bullitins, Back Cover: Honeycomb (11/85)

So the things that stood out. 

There are more printings noted in the indicia for a few more. So I was wrong about that. Issues 5, 6 and perhaps 2 and 7? Are the only ones that are not marked. I only say that about issue 2 because I was unable to find photos of the indicia for the second or third print, however I imagine when one turns up there's a good possibility it will in fact be noted. The problem with issue 7 is I still am unable to locate a second print, or even a photo of the back cover of a second print for that issue. Very strange.

With this completed list we can now make a timeline of release dates for everything.

09/84

- Issue 1 first print

11/84

- Issue 2 first print, Issue 3 first print?

01/85

- Issue 3 first print, 

03/85

- Issue 1 second print, issue 2 second print, issue 3 second print, issue 4 first print

06/85

- issue 1 third print, issue 2 third print, issue 3 third print, issue 5 first print

07/85

- Issue 6 first print

08/85

- issue 5 second print, issue 6 second print, issue 7 first print, 7 second print

09/85

- issue 8 first print

10/85

- issue 9 first print

11/85

- issue 7 third print, 8 second print, #9 second print, issue 10 first print

What is remarkable about this is that we can see a clear pattern of newest issue, and then 3 printings of 3 consecutive previous issues. This would line up perfectly with multipack releases. March of 85', a multipack with issues 1-3 is released alongside issue 4. Knowing they will release another multipack they print extra copies of issue 4. This is why there are no subsequent printings of issue 4. June of 85' the multipack is re-released alongside issue 5. August of 85' a multipack with issues 4-6 is released alongside issue 7. There's a possibility that a multipack is released alongside issue 8 in September of 85' with issues 5-7 unmarked in the indicia. This would explain why issues 5 and 6 aren't marked and issue 7 seems to have no second print. But until one is found this is just speculation. And finally the last multipack is released in November of 85' with issues 7-9 alongside issue 10. 

Feedback again would be appreciated. This makes me feel even more strongly that the extra printings are multipack editions.

I have to admit that this has made me considerably more interested in this series, haha!

[Beyonder123]

On 11/1/2022 at 5:23 PM, Qalyar said:

I have to admit that this has made me considerably more interested in this series, haha!

I'm glad to hear there's interest! It's nice seeing these printings get the the love they deserve haha.

[Qalyar]

So, wanting to clarify. So far, at least, all variants are distinguishable by issue number + back cover? I don't see any combinations that would require checking the indicia and/or the internal book checklist in order to distinguish them, correct?

[Qalyar]

Also, thanks to my proficiency with Google and this 2014 blog post, I can confirm the existence of a #4 with the Payday back cover (and, apparently, no indicia change).

[Beyonder123]

On 11/1/2022 at 6:05 PM, Qalyar said:

Also, thanks to my proficiency with Google and this 2014 blog post, I can confirm the existence of a #4 with the Payday back cover (and, apparently, no indicia change).

That is a great bit of info. So this means every issue from 1-9 had subsequent printings. Looks like he missed the second prints of 5 and 6 on that page. 

[Beyonder123]

Aaaand this might ruin a bit. The ads match up with issue 7. Or so it looks like at a glance. There's no order form in the back of issue 7, like there is in the second print issue 4. Is this just a way to get rid of the letters page? Or were they not released at the same time.

[Qalyar]

On 11/1/2022 at 9:53 PM, Beyonder123 said:

Aaaand this might ruin a bit. The ads match up with issue 7. Or so it looks like at a glance. There's no order form in the back of issue 7, like there is in the second print issue 4. Is this just a way to get rid of the letters page? Or were they not released at the same time.

That's a #7? Interesting, since it seems 7 released quite a bit later than the Payday-back 4 appears to (from the internals), but both have the same interior ad. I suspect that one of those books (which 100% means the variant 4) released at a different time than expected.

Also, at some point, once we get a better handle on what exists, we're going to have to figure out how to refer to these books in a consistent way, to serve as a guide for CGC to label things properly (yeah, I know, none of that from the peanut gallery). Because some of these books have Nth Printing in the indicia, CGC (and the rest of us) will want to defer to the indicia for those variants. But that leaves us with oddities like the #3 Montezuma, #4 Payday, and so on. If we can figure out anything about their distribution, that might shine some light on the issue, otherwise they'll likely end up "Advertising Variants" or some such.

[Beyonder123]

On 11/1/2022 at 8:16 PM, Qalyar said:

it seems 7 released quite a bit later than the Payday-back 4 appears to (from the internals)

I checked my unmarked second prints of 5 and 6, and they appear to be the same as the unmarked 4.

I then compared these with issue 7.

issue 6 second print has exactly the same ads as issue 7 first print, except 6 has an ad for "Fred Hembeck Destroys the Marvel Universe", and the order form that is in 4 second print. It's also lacking the letters page that is in issue 7. In fact I checked and issue 6 first print didn't have a letters page, and the last page has the same Hembeck ad and order form. Also a couple ads have been moved around to make room for a splash page. 

Issue 5 second print also has the exact same ads (again moved around for a splash page) but has the additional order form from issue 6 first print. This differs from the order form in the first print of issue 5.

I dont think the dates on the order form is necessarily a direct indicator of when the book was printed. The date on the order form in the first print of issue 4 is preceeding the cover date by 4 months. Same with the first print of issue 5. If this pattern is consistent, that would give us August of 1985, which is the same date as issue 7.

To conclude, I think we can probably safely say these reprints (4-6) were all released the same time as issue 7 first print. 

[Qalyar]

On 11/1/2022 at 11:53 PM, Beyonder123 said:

I checked my unmarked second prints of 5 and 6, and they appear to be the same as the unmarked 4.

I then compared these with issue 7.

issue 6 second print has exactly the same ads as issue 7 first print, except 6 has an ad for "Fred Hembeck Destroys the Marvel Universe", and the order form that is in 4 second print. It's also lacking the letters page that is in issue 7. In fact I checked and issue 6 first print didn't have a letters page, and the last page has the same Hembeck ad and order form. Also a couple ads have been moved around to make room for a splash page. 

Issue 5 second print also has the exact same ads (again moved around for a splash page) but has the additional order form from issue 6 first print. This differs from the order form in the first print of issue 5.

I dont think the dates on the order form is necessarily a direct indicator of when the book was printed. The date on the order form in the first print of issue 4 is preceeding the cover date by 4 months. Same with the first print of issue 5. If this pattern is consistent, that would give us August of 1985, which is the same date as issue 7.

To conclude, I think we can probably safely say these reprints (4-6) were all released the same time as issue 7 first print. 

In my mind, this strongly suggests either a multi-pack or a specific reprint order for a single point of distribution (like the JC Penney books), either of which might explain why they don't have a printing in the indicia; they didn't go through normal distribution channels and so were not viewed internally as a new "printing" in the conventional sense.

[Beyonder123]

On 11/2/2022 at 5:56 AM, Qalyar said:

In my mind, this strongly suggests either a multi-pack or a specific reprint order for a single point of distribution (like the JC Penney books), either of which might explain why they don't have a printing in the indicia; they didn't go through normal distribution channels and so were not viewed internally as a new "printing" in the conventional sense.

I agree with the multipack statement. However there are multipacks that have second printings that are marked. I don't know if there was a specific reason they weren't marked or if just by luck of the draw some weren't.

I think the next step is to try to compile images of all the different Transformers multipacks and decipher what combinations exist.

Edited November 2, 2022 by Beyonder123

[Beyonder123]

On 11/1/2022 at 5:58 PM, Qalyar said:

So, wanting to clarify. So far, at least, all variants are distinguishable by issue number + back cover? I don't see any combinations that would require checking the indicia and/or the internal book checklist in order to distinguish them, correct?

Just saw this. So far every reprint has different ads when compared to their first print counterparts. That is except issue 7 2nd print, which seems to have the same ads as it's first print. I just purchased one on ebay so I can compare them soon.

[MetalPSI]

On 11/2/2022 at 9:45 AM, Beyonder123 said:

I agree with the multipack statement. However there are multipacks that have second printings that are marked. I don't know if there was a specific reason they weren't marked or if just by luck of the draw some weren't.

I think the next step is to try to compile images of all the different Transformers multipacks and decipher what combinations exist.

Had Starscream pegged as a loser, didn't know he was a ladies man

[Who_am_I_D.R.I.]

I love when someone tries to peice together some obscure truth from breadcrumbs and old memories. I have 1-15 3 packs. Here are some pictures. Let me know if there's any info I can provide to move you forward. My 7,8 , 9 pack is weird because it looks like a reseal but I do not think it is. I have seen many others with the short bag like in my picture. Also, there are some cool price tags on some of these too, like the 1 cent discount on the Kmart bag lol.