The Voord Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 (edited) Just received the latest oversized Taschen Marvel Comics release that reprints the first 20 issues of Fantastic Four, plus Annual # 1 and house ads. The introductory essay features lots of original art scans, including two unpublished covers and the published #2 which, if the description is correct, is the original art, not a recreation. If this does, indeed, exist . . . it's a new one on me. Thoughts? Edited November 11, 2022 by The Voord Randall Dowling, Twanj and tth2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 I don't have any particular knowledge on this, but can you post the exact description? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voord Posted November 11, 2022 Author Share Posted November 11, 2022 On 11/11/2022 at 3:49 PM, Bronty said: I don't have any particular knowledge on this, but can you post the exact description? Description reads: "(Page 18) Reed, Sue, Johnny and Ben saw their early adventures veer decidedly into sci-fi, as shown on this original cover art for Fantastic Four No. 2, etc." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 (edited) Thanks Terry. I wonder. I do see a couple tiny apparent paste ups but not enough to really convince me that it couldn't be production art either. Overall looks too clean but its hard to say. Edited November 11, 2022 by Bronty tth2 and The Voord 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voord Posted November 11, 2022 Author Share Posted November 11, 2022 On 11/11/2022 at 4:11 PM, Bronty said: Thanks Terry. I wonder. I do see a couple tiny apparent paste ups but not enough to really convince me that it couldn't be production art either. It's a quick camera phone shot. The cover, as printed, does show tape and paste-ups more clearly. I'm not 100% convinced on this one, but don't always keep up to date on things like this (possibly) re-surfacing . . . Randall Dowling, Bronty and tth2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glendgold Posted November 11, 2022 Share Posted November 11, 2022 Without the book in front of me (looks lovely - can't wait), my hunch is that this isn't OA but it's still really interesting. It looks like a stat of the OA with the additions pasted over that they used every time they reprinted the book starting in 1966. I'd be delighted if it was original, though. tth2 and Twanj 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voord Posted November 12, 2022 Author Share Posted November 12, 2022 On 11/11/2022 at 4:45 PM, Bill C said: No idea on the status of the original art, but I do know the version of #2 with the extra word balloons has been published in a number of places. Awesome if the art is out there. Does that book also have Kirby's unpublished (pencil only) #20 cover? Outside of what you've shown, that's the only other unpublished FF cover I've seen from the run contained in that Taschen book. No, the penciled # 20 cover isn't included in the book. Bill C 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pemart1966 Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 Looks as if it might be a copy of the cover art which was then mocked up with the little stick ons. Not the original art for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voord Posted November 12, 2022 Author Share Posted November 12, 2022 (edited) On 11/12/2022 at 12:14 AM, pemart1966 said: Looks as if it might be a copy of the cover art which was then mocked up with the little stick ons. Not the original art for sure. So why do you think they'd do that and claim it to be the original cover? Edited November 12, 2022 by The Voord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pemart1966 Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 On 11/11/2022 at 7:18 PM, The Voord said: So why do you think they's do that and claim it to be the original cover? I have no idea. That you'd have to ask them. There are two paintings missing from the wall to the left of Reed's hand/forearm. Also notice the bottom "point" at the top of the letter "c" in "Fantastic" - you can see the point ever so slightly on this "art" but it's completely covered on the printed cover. Look how far to the floor the curtains hang in this "original" compared to the printed version. Then we have the 2 word balloons... Definitely not the original art... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voord Posted November 12, 2022 Author Share Posted November 12, 2022 (edited) On 11/12/2022 at 12:42 AM, pemart1966 said: I have no idea. That you'd have to ask them. There are two paintings missing from the wall to the left of Reed's hand/forearm. Also notice the bottom "point" at the top of the letter "c" in "Fantastic" - you can see the point ever so slightly on this "art" but it's completely covered on the printed cover. Look how far to the floor the curtains hang in this "original" compared to the printed version. Then we have the 2 word balloons... Definitely not the original art... It was not uncommon for Stan Lee to request changes on cover artworks. Some 'published' covers exist as altered versions of the original art The cover to Tales of Suspense # 85, for example. Mike Burkey had both the original artwork (as drawn by Gene Colan) and the (mostly stat) altered published cover for sale some years back. I don't think it's a stretch of the imagination for Stan to ask for the copy-heavy elements of the # 2 cover (as shown in the Taschen book) to be reduced and some slight re-configuration of other artwork elements. As I say, it was not an uncommon practice to alter OA (as originally drawn) for the published version. I'm not convinced that the # 2 cover actually exists, but I don't think it's unreasonable to think it's a copy of the artwork as originally drawn by Jack Kirby . . . subsequently altered on Stan's instructions for the published comic book In response to your original contention, it makes no sense for Taschen to produce an expensive book, illustrated with OA examples, and say, "Hey, let's do a mock-up version of the # 2 cover and add some 'stick-ons'". What would be the point? There is none. Edited November 12, 2022 by The Voord Twanj, Sideshow Bob, tth2 and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phill the Governor Posted November 12, 2022 Share Posted November 12, 2022 Unless my memory is failing me, the cover to issue #2 most certainly exists. Much more art exists than is led on, specifically early Marvel art. Despite art routinely being "thrown away" as the stories like to go, what is often left out is that someone saved the art from the trash or that it was given away without mention instead. Almost all fine art, was commercial art at it's creation. Original comic art is no different: there were people from the start who had the insight to save it or give it away to someone who'd appreciate it because they knew it wasn't worthless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glendgold Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 On 11/12/2022 at 9:55 AM, Phill the Governor said: Unless my memory is failing me, the cover to issue #2 most certainly exists. I'd love it if you can elaborate. One reason I don't think this is the OA is that it's not on that paper with the Curtiss Way demarcations on it. Again, happy to be wrong. Twanj 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirbyJack Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 I was fairly new to collecting when I first bought my Fantastic Four #2. Soon after, I saw the version of the cover shown above, with the word balloons. I thought I had been sold a reprint or counterfeit! In a panic, I called my friend Jeff who owns a copy. He talked me down. I have detested that version ever since. pemart1966 and Bill C 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pemart1966 Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 On 11/12/2022 at 7:08 PM, glendgold said: I'd love it if you can elaborate. One reason I don't think this is the OA is that it's not on that paper with the Curtiss Way demarcations on it. Again, happy to be wrong. You're not wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voord Posted November 13, 2022 Author Share Posted November 13, 2022 (edited) On 11/13/2022 at 12:55 AM, pemart1966 said: Looks as if it might be a copy of the cover art which was then mocked up with the little stick ons. On 11/13/2022 at 12:08 AM, glendgold said: I'd love it if you can elaborate. One reason I don't think this is the OA is that it's not on that paper with the Curtiss Way demarcations on it. Again, happy to be wrong. The twice-up Marvel covers I've seen from the early 1960s were cropped to the image size (ASM # 28, for example). I've also owned several 1950s (Marvel) Atlas-period covers that were also cropped to the image size, so the absence of a Curtis Way backing plate doesn't seem uncommon (come to think of it, I had the Tales to Astonish # 98 cover that was totally cropped to the image). Other Marvel twice-up covers I once owned were attached to a recreated CW backing plate). The absence of old Curtis Way is not rare on twice-up cover OA and may well have been added during printing process for the early stuff?. KirbyJack attests to seeing a copy of the (word balloons-version) # 2 cover around the time of publication, which kind of debunks pemart1966's theory about a mock-up with "stick-ons". As such, I've no reason to disbelieve that it's how the cover was originally illustrated/designed . . . just not convinced that the Taschen book has sourced the original artwork, as claimed. They may well have had access to a good copy of the original (pre-alterations) version. Just my 2c. Edited November 13, 2022 by The Voord KirbyJack and tth2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tth2 Posted November 13, 2022 Share Posted November 13, 2022 On 11/13/2022 at 4:35 PM, The Voord said: It's very cool to see the OA of this cover after seeing a copy of the book posted yesterday in the Russ Heath thread in the GA Forum! The Voord 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Voord Posted November 16, 2022 Author Share Posted November 16, 2022 A google search reveals some color versions, from several different sources, of the unaltered FF #2 cover, as originally drawn by Jack Kirby. As such, this would appear to be a genuine first-attempt cover, later revised for the published version (not 'mocked-up with little stick-ons'), as per KirbyJack's recollection from that time period. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KirbyJack Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 Gotta clarify things a little. I got my FF 2 as a back issue around 1989. The Voord 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...