Stan, Jack, and Steve - The 1960's (1964) The Slow Build 5 5

[Zonker]

It is interesting to see they are starting to refer to the book as a solo Thor book, rather than Journey to Mystery. 

[Dr. Haydn]

On 10/20/2023 at 5:40 AM, Prince Namor said:

ON NEWSSTANDS MARCH 1964

Journey Into Mystery #105 - Tales of Asgard

The Vanna then got a long-term gig turning letters on Wheel of Fortune.

[Dr. Haydn]

On 10/20/2023 at 7:47 AM, Zonker said:

It is interesting to see they are starting to refer to the book as a solo Thor book, rather than Journey to Mystery. 

The box on the left is in a different hand--perhaps it was added later?

[Dr. Haydn]

On 10/20/2023 at 5:39 AM, Prince Namor said:

ON NEWSSTANDS MARCH 1964

Journey Into Mystery #105 -

Part TWO:

Not one of their better efforts.

Judging from page 7, Jack must have been on board with the Don Blake-Jane Foster romance--however reluctantly.

 

 

[Dr. Haydn]

On 10/20/2023 at 5:39 AM, Prince Namor said:

ON NEWSSTANDS MARCH 1964

Journey Into Mystery #105 -

Part TWO:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Why does this whole scene remind me of a bad Silver Age DC plot? I can almost believe that Cobra and Hyde were gullible enough to be tricked into looking out the window while Blake transformed into Thor, but Jane was in the room too--and she saw nothing either. 

 

 

Edited October 20, 2023 by Dr. Haydn

[The humble Watcher lurking]

On 10/20/2023 at 8:47 AM, Zonker said:

It is interesting to see they are starting to refer to the book as a solo Thor book, rather than Journey to Mystery. 

On a personal note, this was my late grandfather`s favorite Marvel Comic. As I was reading Spider-Man as a kid he was reading Thor as an adult.  He always told me how they did a great job with the Norse mythology. 

[The humble Watcher lurking]

On 10/20/2023 at 9:20 AM, Dr. Haydn said:

Why does this whole scene remind me of a bad Silver Age DC plot? I can almost believe that Cobra and Hyde were gullible enough to be tricked into looking out the window while Blake transformed into Thor, bur Jane was in the room too--and she saw nothing either. 

 

 

I think Thor really gets good like two years from this issue. Thor like #125 to #177 there is a huge difference in quality compared to #105. 

Edited October 21, 2023 by The humble Watcher lurking

[Prince Namor]

On 10/20/2023 at 8:47 AM, Zonker said:

It is interesting to see they are starting to refer to the book as a solo Thor book, rather than Journey to Mystery. 

In the logo as well that THOR dominates...

[Prince Namor]

On 10/20/2023 at 9:20 AM, Dr. Haydn said:

Why does this whole scene remind me of a bad Silver Age DC plot? I can almost believe that Cobra and Hyde were gullible enough to be tricked into looking out the window while Blake transformed into Thor, bur Jane was in the room too--and she saw nothing either. 

I'm sure there was a lot of haggling over the main stories....

On 10/20/2023 at 11:45 AM, The humble Watcher lurking said:

I think Thor really gets good like two years from this issue. Thor like #125 to #177 there is a huge difference in quality. 

Tales of Asgard was allowed to appease Kirby who wanted the book to be more of THAT and less of Lee's repeated unrequited love in the office that was exactly the same in Iron Man, Ant-Man, and already in Daredevil as well.

Eventually Kirby would win out, in a bitter sweet sense, as he'd completely take over the book in the direction HE chose, yet still not get the CREDIT or PAY for the writing of it. 

It's also believed that in late 1966, as the Dialogue began to change in Thor - suddenly even Thor was saying Thou and Mayhap and Tis - was when Roy began ghost writing the book for Stan, as he had more knowledge of that vernacular. The difference in dialogue between #126 and #177 is very noticeable.

[Dr. Haydn]

On 10/20/2023 at 12:59 PM, Prince Namor said:

It's also believed that in late 1966, as the Dialogue began to change in Thor - suddenly even Thor was saying Thou and Mayhap and Tis - was when Roy began ghost writing the book for Stan, as he had more knowledge of that vernacular. The difference in dialogue between #126 and #177 is very noticeable.

Roy Thomas is still with us, if someone wanted to ask him about this.

[Prince Namor]

On 10/20/2023 at 2:36 PM, Dr. Haydn said:

Roy Thomas is still with us, if someone wanted to ask him about this.

Yeah, I don't think we'll get much of the truth out of Houseroy. He once threatened to talk openly about his days at Marvel (after Shooter dumped him), but no one really blinked. Once he and Stan made up and he got that 20 year gig ghost writing the Spider-man newspaper strip, that ship had pretty much sailed. 

[Prince Namor]

Amazing Interview with Steve Ditko's younger brother and nephew...

Pat Ditko (Steve's brother): When I first read Spider-man, and I saw Peter Parker, I told everybody, THAT's Steve Ditko.

 

Edited October 21, 2023 by Prince Namor

[aardvark88]

On 10/20/2023 at 10:59 AM, Prince Namor said:

I less of Lee's repeated unrequited love in the office that was exactly the same in Iron Man, Ant-Man, and already in Daredevil as well.

Eventually Kirby would win out, in a bitter sweet sense, as he'd completely take over the book in the direction HE chose, yet still not get the CREDIT or PAY for the writing of it. 

 

Who created FF's the Inhumans vs. the Marvel Method:

[Dr. Haydn]

On 10/19/2023 at 6:45 AM, Steven Valdez said:

I have no trouble believing that's the process whereby Mr Doll was dreamed up.

Or "Mr. Pain," as he might have been originally named (notice how "Doll" is crudely lettered in another hand wherever the name appears).

Still, even with a more fearsome name, not exactly one of Marvel's A-list villains!

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS APRIL 1964

Tales to Astonish #57 - Brilliantly Written by Good Ol' Stan Lee (more overcompensation to put forth the idea that he wrote these stories)   Bashfully Drawn by Lovable Ol' Dick Ayers  Boldly Inked by Faithful Ol' Paul Reinman   Bravely Lettered by Fearless Ol' S. Rosen

Cover by Jack Kirby with inks by Chic Stone

Pulling out all the stops to save Ant-Man, we get a Spider-man crossover. And Egg Head returns. Oh boy.

Part ONE:

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS APRIL 1964

Tales to Astonish #57 -

Part TWO:

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS APRIL 1964

Tales to Astonish #57 - Ad

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS APRIL 1964

Tales to Astonish #57 - Ring-a-Ding Story Plot by: Stan Lee  Jazzy Script and Art by Larry Lieber  Like wow man inking by Chic Stone  Far Out Lettering by S. Rosen

Only one more of these to go...

[Prince Namor]

It's apparent that Stan couldn't get Dick Ayers or Don Heck to be able to stretch out their stories to 23 pages. They just weren't... good writers like Kirby and Ditko. This would explain the lack of quality in the stories done by these guys vs Kirby/Ditko.

If Stan were actually writing the stories, it shouldn't have been an issue. 

So to keep up appearances, he's able to talk Ditko into doing 10 page Hulk stories, that he can combine with (it would soon be a few different artists) 13 page Ant-Man stories, and he talks Kirby into doing 10 page Captain America stories that he can combine with Heck's 13 page Iron Man stories - while he already has Ayers doing Human Torch and Ditko doing Dr. Strange. 

Stan sees that, in order to make all the books successful, he has to get either Kirby or Ditko into EACH of them. It has nothing to do with Stan as a 'writer' or even an editor - you can polish a turd all you want - it's still a turd. He NEEDS Kirby and Ditko. 

But what about the AMAZING Larry Lieber who scripted all of Kirby's monster stories (snicker) and created Thor and Ant-Man and Iron Man (LOL) and played such a huge part in the rise of Marvel Comics?

Oh, he'd be doing Rawhide Kid. 

It's pretty easy to see that his 5 page Tales of the Watcher and 5 page Tales of the Wasp were NOT what fans wanted. So Stan would be able to cut back the main story for Heck and Ayers and Burgos/Powell and have Ditko and Kirby add content to make the books stronger, all while HE took credit (and PAY) for the writing. 

Again we see it isn't Lee, but Kirby and Ditko that make it all work. 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Prince Namor

[Prince Namor]

ON NEWSSTANDS MARCH 1964

Strange Tales #122 - Rapidly Written by Stan Lee  Speedily sketched by Dick Ayers  Instantly Inked by Geo. Bell  Lazily Lettered by S. Rosen

Cover by Jack Kirby (inks George Roussos)

After two full pages of recap, three of the most boring bad guys in the Marvel Universe, just show up at Johnny Storm's door in the suburbs and easily take him prisoner. They trap him in a nondescript family trailer, that conveniently is lined with asbestos and his escape takes up another two pages. The bad guys have gone back to the house in the suburbs to wait on Sue Storm, but Johnny shows up and we finish with a 5 page fight scene where the Human Torch overcomes his foes by a) not getting soaked by water 'enough' and b) the last one gets Johnny's car stuck in the mud. 

Ah well, they can't all be Dr. Doom stories I guess...