Is there any word/traction on getting the George Perez collection declared a pedigree? 1 1

[CaseyJohnson]

After his death, his personal (and quite sizable) collection was mostly slabbed and sold. CGC is already labeling each one this way so what is stopping them from using the gold label?

Edited March 22 by CaseyJohnson

[newshane]

Because it doesn’t meet the qualifications for a pedigree collection. 
 

Those books are properly labeled as a provenance collection. There is a difference. 

Edited March 22 by newshane

[CaseyJohnson]

Help me understand the difference.

[newshane]

Pedigree books: 

The collection must be original owner.
This means that the books must have been bought off the newsstand as they came out. For example, a collector cannot buy a high-grade run of 1940s comics from various sources and expect it to be considered a pedigree. The original owner need not currently own the comics for the collection to be considered for pedigree status.

The collection must be of vintage material.
This means that a large collection consisting of comics from the 1970s to present cannot be considered a pedigree. In fact, until the sale of some key White Mountain books in a Sotheby’s auction in the early 1990s, Silver Age comics were not accepted as pedigree collections. Comic books from 1966 and after are relatively common in high grade compared to earlier issues. This occurred as a direct result of a tremendous explosion in the number of collectors in fandom in the mid-1960s. Collections that are primarily from 1966 and after must have average grades of at least 9.4 to be considered a pedigree.

The collection must consist of a considerable number of comics.
Most pedigree collections consist of at least 1,000 books and some number over 10,000 comics. The collections that consist of fewer books, such as the Allentown and Denver collections, must include extremely rare, important, and/or key material.

The collection must be high-grade.
Comics from the Silver Age in general would have to be 9.2 and higher, and a collection of exclusive Silver Age material must have an average grade of 9.4. Golden Age comics would have to be high-grade as well. For example, the Lost Valley collection consisted of many golden age books from before 1941 that were technically mid-grade, but were almost across the board the highest graded copy for that book. Page quality must be nice as well.

Many of the pedigree collections were recognized and accepted by the hobby before CGC came into existence in late 1999.

[newshane]

Provenance books are those owned by someone famous or connected to the industry. There are Nicholas Cage provenance books, for example. Think of provenance books as more of a chain of custody label. Sometimes a book will be both a pedigree AND a provenance! I have an example to share once I find the scan. Provenance books get a special notation on the blue label but not a gold label.

[newshane]

Here is an example from my personal collection. This is a Rockford Pedigree, and it’s also a provenance (from the collection of Jon Berk). 

[CaseyJohnson]

Very cool and thanks for explaining that.  Is there a way to track all the cgc entries from a  providence collection?  

[shadroch]

It's a nonsensical designation.  Church gets a pedigree because he bought what were then modern books each week.  Larsen bought modern books each week, the White Mountain people bought modern books each week.  Now, if you buy modern books, it can't be a pedigree. 

Jon Berk bought most of his books second and third hand.  If Perez has thirty years of books he bought new, or even if Marvel sent them to him, it's nonsense to say it can't be a pedigree because it doesn't have older books in it. 

CGC is a company that slabs and grades comics. Don't give them powers they don't deserve.  No one selected them as the arbiter of what is or isn't a pedigree.

[newshane]

On 5/11/2024 at 8:26 AM, shadroch said:

It's a nonsensical designation.  Church gets a pedigree because he bought what were then modern books each week.  Larsen bought modern books each week, the White Mountain people bought modern books each week.  Now, if you buy modern books, it can't be a pedigree. 

Jon Berk bought most of his books second and third hand.  If Perez has thirty years of books he bought new, or even if Marvel sent them to him, it's nonsense to say it can't be a pedigree because it doesn't have older books in it. 

CGC is a company that slabs and grades comics. Don't give them powers they don't deserve.  No one selected them as the arbiter of what is or isn't a pedigree.

So, how would you define a pedigree collection if you were in charge? 
 

Should every award winning modern registry set count as a pedigree? I’m not sure, but it seems like you take umbrage with restrictions on modern era collections, correct? 

[shadroch]

I don't take umbrage with any of this, I just think Pedigrees and collections are overblown.  I personally would prefer a book that George Perez bought and read than one some collector read and carefully stored away.  Others have different tastes, and that is what makes the hobby special.

Are most registry sets bought raw and submitted or assembled after they were graded? Neither impresses me much, but others find it important.

Off-hand, I'd define a pedigree as an extensive, original-owner collection purchased new that spans a long period of time. I see no reason why a collection started in 1965 that goes through 2000 and is all original purchases can't be a pedigree, but it's not my bat and ball.