Is there a way to tell the difference between a real Avenger #1 versus a facsimile if there is no cover (cover less)? 2 2

[RetiredMSG]

I apologize in advance if this is a duplicate post. I did my best searching for this question, before posting my own. 
 

I am looking into picking up an affordable copy of Avengers #1, which means the only thing I can come close to affording is a coverless copy. However, with all the facsimiles that are out there and dishonest sellers I pause when I see a deal on a coverless copy.  Is there a way to tell the difference between the real McCoy and a facsimile that someone is selling as real?  Thanks in advance. 

[revat]

Ads typically different.

you can buy cgc copies that are coverless

[shadroch]

On 6/24/2024 at 6:28 AM, RetiredMSG said:

I apologize in advance if this is a duplicate post. I did my best searching for this question, before posting my own. 
 

I am looking into picking up an affordable copy of Avengers #1, which means the only thing I can come close to affording is a coverless copy. However, with all the facsimiles that are out there and dishonest sellers I pause when I see a deal on a coverless copy.  Is there a way to tell the difference between the real McCoy and a facsimile that someone is selling as real?  Thanks in advance. 

If you can't tell the difference between a sixty-year-old interior and a modern one, I suggest you stick with buying from trusted professionals. 

[RetiredMSG]

On 6/24/2024 at 10:54 AM, revat said:

Ads typically different.

you can buy cgc copies that are coverless

Thanks.  I thought the facsimile ones had the same ads from yesteryear.  I’ll keep looking.  CGC may be the route to go.  

[revat]

On 6/24/2024 at 9:12 AM, RetiredMSG said:

On 6/24/2024 at 7:54 AM, revat said:

Ads typically different.

you can buy cgc copies that are coverless

Thanks.  I thought the facsimile ones had the same ads from yesteryear.  I’ll keep looking.  CGC may be the route to go.  

Oh you don't mean like an official facsimile.  You mean a real copy that someone has made after the initial publishing for the purpose of deceiving a potential buyer.  I would say if you've handled a lot of silver age marvel books, you should be able to feel the differences in paper and see the differences in ink.  But for the money involved, if you're not super confident in your own skills/experience, either bring an expert or buy a certified copy.  OR buy from a trusted dealer who stands by his word.

[RetiredMSG]

On 6/24/2024 at 12:17 PM, revat said:

Oh you don't mean like an official facsimile.  You mean a real copy that someone has made after the initial publishing for the purpose of deceiving a potential buyer.  I would say if you've handled a lot of silver age marvel books, you should be able to feel the differences in paper and see the differences in ink.  But for the money involved, if you're not super confident in your own skills/experience, either bring an expert or buy a certified copy.  OR buy from a trusted dealer who stands by his word.

Understood.  Thanks!  I’m thinking if it’s too good to be true it probably is.  I do most of my buying online these days as the LCS is going the way of the dodo bird, so I don’t get to handle these purchases as much as I would like to anymore.  

[marvelmaniac]

The Marvel Facsimile Editions have all of the original ads and letter pages, however all Marvel Facsimile Editions state that they are in fact a "Facsimile Edition" in the first line of the Indicia on the bottom of the splash page.

The Marvel Milestone Editions also have all of the original ads and letter pages and also read "Marvel Milestone Edition" on the first line of the Indicia, however, the indicia is on the inside of the front cover, the telltale sign that it is a reprint, the Marvel Milestone Editions are not printed on newsprint, they are printed on a "gloss coated paper" and the images are much brighter/sharper and really "Pop", much much more than the original.

I do not own an original Avengers 1, looking at my Avengers 2, the indicia is located on the inside of the front cover but you visually see the differences in the paper and images.

Click on the images to enlarge.

MARVEL FACSIMILE EDITION AVENGERS 1 

MARVEL MILESTONE EDITION AVENGERS 1 (PRINTED ON GLOSSED COATED PAPER)

AVENGERS 2 (1963) PRINTED ON NEWSPRINT

 

 

Edited Monday at 06:18 PM by marvelmaniac

[RetiredMSG]

On 6/24/2024 at 2:16 PM, marvelmaniac said:

The Marvel Facsimile Editions have all of the original ads and letter pages, however all Marvel Facsimile Editions state that they are in fact a "Facsimile Edition" in the first line of the Indicia on the bottom of the splash page.

The Marvel Milestone Editions also have all of the original ads and letter pages and also read "Marvel Milestone Edition" on the first line of the Indicia, however, the indicia is on the inside of the front cover, the telltale sign that it is a reprint, the Marvel Milestone Editions are not printed on newsprint, they are printed on a "gloss coated paper" and the images are much brighter/sharper and really "Pop", much much more than the original.

I do not own an original Avengers 1, looking at my Avengers 2, the indicia is located on the inside of the front cover but you visually see the differences in the paper and images.

Click on the images to enlarge.

MARVEL FACSIMILE EDITION AVENGERS 1 

MARVEL MILESTONE EDITION AVENGERS 1 (PRINTED ON GLOSSED COATED PAPER)

AVENGERS 2 (1963) PRINTED ON NEWSPRINT

 

 

Thank you for the detailed overview and pictures. Just looking at it, I can tell there was a color differentiation in the milestone editions.  
 

Also, I think the Marvel tales # 2 was a concern of mine as well.  but I think I am good now.  Thank you for answering my questions.

[marvelmaniac]

I forgot about Marvel Tales 2, if you need/want pics of the Avengers reprint in that issue, let me know.

[Dick Pontoon]

This thread includes some photos of Marvel Tales #2:

 

[Albert Tatlock]

On 6/24/2024 at 7:16 PM, marvelmaniac said:

I do not own an original Avengers 1, looking at my Avengers 2, the indicia is located on the inside of the front cover but you visually see the differences in the paper and images.

The DC mags from the time have the indicia at the bottom of the splash page, so even a coverless copy can be identified.

However, the Marvels had the indicia inside the front cover, so a coverless copy would be more difficult to identify.

I had a couple of coverless pre-hero Marvels back in the day, but had no idea of the issue number or even the title, as there were no in-house ads like DC ran, with pictures of that month's other titles, usually with a blurb like 'On sale now!'.

That changed when Marvel began the superhero titles, which cross-promoted each other.

You can also find, in the later pre-heros, teasers at the bottom of the pages prodding the reader to rush out and buy Amazing Adult Fantasy or FF. Probably as a result of input from Stan.

 

[RetiredMSG]

On 6/25/2024 at 1:29 PM, marvelmaniac said:

I forgot about Marvel Tales 2, if you need/want pics of the Avengers reprint in that issue, let me know.

Thanks!  I may take you up on that offer.  Trying to see if it is possible to tell the difference in case I come across it.  I appreciate all the help in this one folks.  Hoping that Marvel Tales 2 has pages in the “wrong side” to easily tell when someone is passing it off as an original cover less Avengers 1. 

[GawkHawk]

On 6/27/2024 at 10:44 PM, RetiredMSG said:

Thanks!  I may take you up on that offer.  Trying to see if it is possible to tell the difference in case I come across it.  I appreciate all the help in this one folks.  Hoping that Marvel Tales 2 has pages in the “wrong side” to easily tell when someone is passing it off as an original cover less Avengers 1. 

IIRC, the first page of the Tales reprint has "Originally presented in Avengers #1" or some such disclaimer.  

Edit: Found this pic in a thread from a couple of weeks ago.

Edited Friday at 10:41 AM by GawkHawk

[Qalyar]

The Daily Sun giveaway reprint didn't include any of the advertising, and actually shifts the contents such that the first story page is the inside front cover, making it immediately identifiable if coverless.