Stan Lee Lied - Your Handy Guide to Every Lie in the 'Origins of Marvel Comics' 11 11

[Prince Namor]

On 10/7/2024 at 7:23 PM, sfcityduck said:

White flag noted.

That's right. You won. You talked so much nonsense, I gave up.

[namisgr]

On 10/7/2024 at 8:00 AM, lostboys said:

Lily-livered New Genesis cowards!

You've torn victory from my grasp!!

 

Opinion.  

Mine, too.  And the legions of comic readers who favor the dialog and narration in SA Lee and Kirby and Lee and Ditko superhero books over it.

[sfcityduck]

On 10/7/2024 at 5:26 AM, Prince Namor said:

That's right. You won. You talked so much nonsense, I gave up.

You literally have only two lines to defend in Kirby’s declaration (so far) yet you cannot muster a cogent defense. Why? Because there is no cogent defense for that 1966 declaration.

[Dr. Haydn]

On 10/6/2024 at 7:13 PM, Prince Namor said:

I liked Kirby's dialogue because it was to the point. I couldn't read a lot of those 70's Marvel writers and their exaggerated, hyperbolic, melodramatic dialogue. It's ironic that they make fun of Kirby's dialogue, when they wrote stuff like this.

 

Presumably he saved some of the serum to save the Falcon's life as well?

[comicwiz]

On 10/7/2024 at 8:26 AM, Prince Namor said:

That's right. You won. You talked so much nonsense, I gave up.

Agreed.

Declaring a "mistatement" for Kirby describing it as "Victor Fox" is ridiculous. He owned multiple publications, including one not mentioned which is Bruns, and there was another Fox Publications in Colorado that existed at the time. Stating the name of the owner, whose family name was used as a convention of naming companies he owned, was the most efficient and concise way, particularly in the case of another company using the same name, there was no decietful or dishonest reason for him choosing to describe it the way he did.

It could also be argued that he was addressing him respectfully as the titan of publishers in his time - there's a reason he was described as "The King of Comics."

Edited October 7 by comicwiz

[mrc]

On 10/7/2024 at 2:39 PM, comicwiz said:

there's a reason he was described as "The King of Comics."

..........Stan?

[Prince Namor]

Seems I could write a book about Lee's lies in the pre-Marvel time of his life as well. I hadn't read David Hajdu's 'The Ten-Cent Plague' in over ten years, and didn't see it as a necessary reference for my book, but... wow. Some Lee whopper lies there.

Timely, the first major publisher to focus on horror? No.

Putting out 25 horror books a month? Not even close.

Each of which had 6 stories? No. 

He single-handedly processed all of the text for the whole line. No. 

wrote "hundreds" of stories... Not during the 50's he didn't. OR in the horror genre.

commissioned all the art... Al Sulman handled traffic. Lee oversaw it. 

designed characters... what characters? Millie the Model? No. Kid Colt? No. Patsy Walker? No. 

New Ideas for every story...  What'd Lee actually write in the horror genre, besides his run on Menace that he lasted about 7.5 issues on?

And they were infamous for copying EC Comics on their horror!

 

To read a complete - and I mean complete - run down of what Lee did in horror during the Atlas years, check out Doc Vassallo's story here on his blog.

Heads up: He's very fair to Lee in this, and it features some great art by many legends.

https://timely-atlas-comics.blogspot.com/search?q=horror

 

Edited October 7 by Prince Namor

[comicwiz]

On 10/7/2024 at 10:23 AM, mrc said:

..........Stan?

Google is your friend

Also written in his obituary

[Albert Tatlock]

From ASM # 12.

The lettering on the sign would suggest that Ditko, at the time, acknowledged at least some collaboration with Stan.

[comicwiz]

From an FB post, a snippet out of (2008) David Hajdu's The Ten-Cent Plague : the great comic book scare and how it changed America

[Mmehdy]

On 10/7/2024 at 7:23 AM, mrc said:

..........Stan?

no way....Here is a prime example.....I was reading Hulk 3  in the marvel omnibus yesterday and the second the story with the "ringmaster".....not an original Idea via captain america however in noting his action sequences ...it stuck me it was 99% Kirby on that story...not the usual 95% Jack....If you have access to that story...show me where Stan is...the dialog fits panel by panel.......Try it....and let me know...thanks

Edited October 7 by Mmehdy

[comicwiz]

On 10/7/2024 at 11:11 AM, comicwiz said:

From an FB post, a snippet out of (2008) David Hajdu's The Ten-Cent Plague : the great comic book scare and how it changed America

[Prince Namor]

On 10/7/2024 at 9:58 PM, Albert Tatlock said:

From ASM # 12.

The lettering on the sign would suggest that Ditko, at the time, acknowledged at least some collaboration with Stan.

Ditko acknowledged his collaboration with Stan in his essays around 1998-2001. He mostly points out the ideas he didn't accept from Stan, but he does mention some things Lee did (like coming up with the name Doctor Octopus, or saying they should play up the 'romance' angle - hmmm - in restarting the Hulk, because it had worked in ASM). 

He also acknowledged that Lee didn't speak to him from around ASM #25 to the end of his time at Marvel, so he worked entirely on his own writing the stories, for ASM and Doctor Strange. But not the Hulk. Lee removed him from that as punishment for asking for plot credit, at which time he then refused to even see Ditko. 

[sfcityduck]

On 10/7/2024 at 6:39 AM, comicwiz said:

Agreed.

Declaring a "mistatement" for Kirby describing it as "Victor Fox" is ridiculous. He owned multiple publications, including one not mentioned which is Bruns, and there was another Fox Publications in Colorado that existed at the time. Stating the name of the owner, whose given name was used as a convention of naming companies he owned, was the most efficient and concise way, particularly in the case of another company using the same name, there was no decietful or dishonest reason for him choosing to describe it the way he did.

It could also be argued that he was addressing him respectfully as the titan of publishers in his time - there's a reason he was described as "The King of Comics."

You are ignoring the last part of that sentence which was very intentional because it had legal significance.

You are also missing Kirby's credit grab. But, I get it, Kirby can do no wrong.

The reason Kirby couldn't come up with the name of Fox Publishing is he's always had a spotty memory. Same can be said for Stan. Lies? PN says so when its Stan. For Kirby? Again, benefit of the doubt always given.

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 10/7/2024 at 9:06 AM, Mmehdy said:

That is what Stan would want. a typical reaction to the truthj...to bury the truth....to keep the myth going.....This book will open the way for other true bio's of Stan the promoter....you know it...it hurts deep to get a gut punch of reality.....That Jack and Steve and whole host of other artists who were writers were the shoulder of the Marvel Creation of the early 1960's.

 There are a lot of writer/director movies and comic books were the creator wears two hats.....The sad reality is for too many years their creator credits has been diminished by books like the Origin of Marvel Comics.......creating a myth greater than Thor and Asguard itself.

The truth most of the time comes out, eventually....this took a long time, it took a grand slam of books to debunk 50 years of lies as the book would say it, I would say extreme exaggerations which slowly built up bigger and bigger until it got so big, a book, a true masterpiece of detective work and reconstruction  popped it!!!

This is 2024 Lostboys...its time to get the truth found,not lost.

[Ken Aldred]

On 10/7/2024 at 1:00 PM, lostboys said:

Lily-livered New Genesis cowards!

You've torn victory from my grasp!!

 

 

"In the context of destruction, Orion transcends the term ! To oppose him is to die ! To survive him is life lived in fragmented form !

My favourite over-the-top Kirby quote, and a candidate for most metal comic dialogue of all time.

Edited October 7 by Ken Aldred

[Ken Aldred]

Even in his twilight years, Kirby could still knock out the occasional classic...

[Ken Aldred]

On 10/7/2024 at 2:28 AM, KCOComics said:

But New Gods was pretty forgettable. The writing wasn't exactly Shakespeare.

Lee did give it the old college try on Thor, as we all know.

Edited October 7 by Ken Aldred

[Ken Aldred]

On 10/7/2024 at 12:58 PM, Prince Namor said:

Yeah, I never understood people's love for those guys. Engelhart, Gerber, etc.. Overwritten, self-important drivel. Again, my opinion.

Don McGregor was for me the most overwritten of the Bronze Age writers. 

Killraven's a good example.  A treat to see P Craig Russell rapidly developing into a brilliant comic artist, but buried under so much turgid prose. Very heavy going, despite some good ideas in there.

 

Edited October 7 by Ken Aldred

[RockMyAmadeus]

On 10/7/2024 at 11:11 AM, Ken Aldred said:

Don McGregor was for me the most overwritten of the Bronze Age writers. 

Killraven's a good example.  A treat to see P Craig Russell rapidly developing into a brilliant comic artist, but buried under so much turgid prose. Very heavy going, despite some good ideas in there.