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Are white-paged books actually less structurally sound?

Started by delekkerste,

31 posts in this topic

delekkerste

delekkerste

Posted
Posted

Noticed this in CBG #1537 (page 5, written by CBG editor Maggie Thompson):

 

"If a copy gets a 9.0 with white pages, it has defects that the same issue with cream to off-white pages doesn't have - to give both the same 9.0 grade. CGC grades are cumulative evaluations. Though CGC doesn't up the grade for whiteness in the bottom grades (say, 3.5), a 9.0 is a 9.0 is a 9.0".

 

Have people been paying big premiums for page whiteness for nothing? Are white-paged copies less structurally sound than their cream-to-white page counterparts or is CBG smoking crack? confused.gif893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

Gene

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FlyingDonut

FlyingDonut

Posted
Posted
Noticed this in CBG #1537 (page 5, written by CBG editor Maggie Thompson):

 

"If a copy gets a 9.0 with white pages, it has defects that the same issue with cream to off-white pages doesn't have - to give both the same 9.0 grade. CGC grades are cumulative evaluations. Though CGC doesn't up the grade for whiteness in the bottom grades (say, 3.5), a 9.0 is a 9.0 is a 9.0".

 

Have people been paying big premiums for page whiteness for nothing? Are white-paged copies less structurally sound than their cream-to-white page counterparts or is CBG smoking crack? confused.gif893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

Gene

 

Maggie Thompson smoking crack... 27_laughing.gif27_laughing.gif...

 

Little old midwestern lady hitting the pipe... 27_laughing.gif27_laughing.gif27_laughing.gif

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Ares

Ares

Posted
Posted
Have people been paying big premiums for page whiteness for nothing? Are white-paged copies less structurally sound than their cream-to-white page counterparts or is CBG smoking crack? confused.gif893scratchchin-thumb.gifGene

 

they are smoking someones crack

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blowout

blowout

Posted
Posted

Have people been paying big premiums for page whiteness for nothing? Are white-paged copies less structurally sound than their cream-to-white page counterparts or is CBG smoking crack

 

This has been talked about several times before. The fact that a CGC 10.0 has been graded with OW/W pages has led most to believe that page quality (below tan/brittle) does NOT factor into the grade (if it does less than 0.2 of a grade) but is just an additional note on the label.

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murph0

murph0

Posted
Posted

I fully believe this, page quality HAS to be figured in somehow..otherwise you'd see cream or tan pages in NM and better. I no longer buy white paged books, I've found that the nicest looking books to be w/ OW p.q.

 

Brian

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blowout

blowout

Posted
Posted

I fully believe this, page quality HAS to be figured in somehow..otherwise you'd see cream or tan pages in NM and better.

 

The ARE books with cream pages right up to CGC 9.8.

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joe_collector

joe_collector

Posted
Posted

I know you can have a CGC 9.4 with Light Tan pages, and I think (don't hold me to it) that I've seen a 9.6 book like that too.

 

I don't believe Page Quality has any effect on grade, and even if it does, we're talking minute fractions of a grade for PQ, that would be impossible to administer or quantify.

 

We joke about the difference between a CGC 9.8 and 9.9, but what about a CGC 9.899 and a 9.905???

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PedigreeMan

PedigreeMan

Posted
Posted

God 893censored-thumb.gifmit, people, read your Overstreets! The grade of a book has always been about the overall look and feel of it!

 

893Rant-Smilie-thumb.gif

 

Those individuals that believe grading a comic book can be boiled down to a simple formula of adding up creases or spine breaks or stains or whatever are delusional! Two books with the same defects but not the same cover gloss, page quality, texture, or smell (re: all the qualities that comprise its look and feel) will always be graded differently. Unfortunately, these are aspects that cannot be fully ascertained when the book is left sandwiched between two layers of plastic. shocked.gif

 

Look at the Marvel #1 Pay Copy . How many here would grade that a 9.0 based solely on the visible defects? Probably not too many. However, who here -- besides the CGC graders -- has actually held the raw book in their hands? Do you know what the ink reflectivity of the cover is? Or how "bouncy" the pages are? Or what it smells like?!? All of these aspects went into the grade.

 

Or, take the Larson Sub-Mariner #1. Another 9.0? With those rusted staples and foxing? "Give me a break," most will say. But, again, how many people have seen this book in person, out of the slab? Are the colors on the cover jumping off the page? If you closed your eyes and were able to ignore the age defects, would the book feel like it was printed yesterday?

 

Finally, speaking from experience, if I posted a scan of my Aces High #1 (Windy City Copy) with its numerous color-breaking spine stresses, I would bet that a number of posters here wouldn't grade it higher than a 7.5. 893naughty-thumb.gif Actual CGC grade? You guessed it, another 9.0.

 

893Rant-Smilie-thumb.gif

 

In other words ... yep, some books with white pages (or that just simply look GOOD) can be structurally worse than others. Everyone repeat after me: "Look and feel, look and feel, look and feel!" laugh.gif

 

Al

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PedigreeMan

PedigreeMan

Posted
Posted

I think we all know that CGC grades far less strict on Golden Age books than with Silver-Now.

 

The three books that I chose were purely off the top of my head. I'm certain that the "look and feel" aspect of CGC grading applies to all eras, yet will end up being more prevalent with those from the Golden Age simply due to the length of aging time.

 

Al

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joe_collector

joe_collector

Posted
Posted

In my experience, a Bronze or Modern book's spine is THE most important characteristic and must be pretty well perfect to hit 9.4 or higher. The corners are far less important, and the back cover is almost an after-thought.

 

No way a Bronze or Modern would hit CGC 9.0 with multiple, color breaking spine creases, no matter how nice the "look and feel" of the book is.

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fantastic_four

fantastic_four

Posted
Posted

Two books with the same defects but not the same cover gloss, page quality, texture, or smell (re: all the qualities that comprise its look and feel) will always be graded differently.

 

You're referring to lack of gloss, lower page quality, grainier texture, or a more acidic smell as if they were separate from other types of defects. Aren't they all defects just like the more conventional ones except that they perhaps don't impact grade quite as much?

 

Should we give more points to Golden Age which look like they were printed yesterday than we'd give to nigh-perfect Modern books that were printed yesterday?

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PedigreeMan

PedigreeMan

Posted
Posted
Two books with the same defects but not the same cover gloss, page quality, texture, or smell (re: all the qualities that comprise its look and feel) will always be graded differently.

 

You're referring to lack of gloss, lower page quality, grainier texture, or a more acidic smell as if they were separate from other types of defects. Aren't they all defects just like the more conventional ones except that they perhaps don't impact grade quite as much?

 

These are really just a portion of what comprises a book's "look and feel." Besides, how does one assign a defect level to these various aspects? Sure, it can be done, but it's a lot harder than measuring and counting creases or spine stresses. On top of this, you run into the "not seeing the forest for the trees" dilemma when you start breaking "look and feel" into its correspondent parts. Cover gloss, bouncy pages, etc. need to be looked at together. grin.gif

 

 

Should we give more points to Golden Age which look like they were printed yesterday than we'd give to nigh-perfect Modern books that were printed yesterday?

 

We already do! smile.gif Check the latest Overstreet under the "Grading" section where they talk about (surprise, surprise!) pedigrees!

 

Al

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spidermanbeyond

spidermanbeyond

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Posted

I agree. I don't obsess over white pages like some collectors. I have found some OW/W to be structurally better and also better deals/value. Some off white books l have seen are at times are very nice and some don't fit the grade. Again this is inconsistency on CGC's part. Let me tell you about a batch of books I sent in (books are about 18 years old). All were bought by me at the same time and stored in the same place and in the same matter. I sent several over different time periods to CGC to get a feel for their grading. Most came back CGC 9.6 off white to white, a few more 9.6 off white, and a very few at 9.6 white, one at CGC 9.8 White. Now, in my opinion all the books had pretty much the same page quality of off white to white.

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