A note on selling and buying here

[Tomega]

For the most part, this is not a response to any one person.

 

This is totally ridiculous. Welcome to the world of sales, this is what happens. Deals go without a hitch and deals falls through. Boo hoo - that is what happens. Do you think Blazing Bob, Metro or any of the professional dealers cry over spilled milk. There are the situations that "just happen," causing deals to fall through. I am sales and probably have lost tens of thousands of dollars in commissions on people that backed out after all my hard work. It is frustrating , and I think October posted to just vent that frustration, but that is life.

 

October said he lost hundreds of dollars in sales. Did those books just spontaneously combust because they did not sell? Are no longer available and he is never going to be able to sell them again because someone backed out? Is he going to have to re-scan everything for the next buyer? Do any of us know the situation? We all know October is stand up guy but that does mean we should make assumptions. Did the sales fall through after October sent the scans? Did the buyer get a better deal elsewhere? And before anybody says it does not matter - ask yourself if you could get the a book for half the price, you would not because you working on a deal with a forum member. Before you think of an answer, say you found the book for $1000 instead of $2000. Conversely, if a seller here had an offer of $2000 instead of $1000 - what do you think would happen? Business is business. We are not writing binding contracts here. Respect is one thing but there are a myriad of circumstances that can change the dynamics of a deal.

 

There is definitely a blood in the water mob mentality here sometimes. So far I have seen - friends do not stiff friends, save the deception for eBay, they will never learn, bad forumites, name names so the rest of us don't have to deal with these insufficiently_thoughtful_persons...all of this without knowledge of situation. Give me a break, nearly every forum member seems to be a pretty stand up, to say they are deceptive , bad, and idiotic is idiotic in itself. Business is business and there is not always a result for work. That is it's nature. If people think this is a friends only club and we are doing a favor for a friend buy selling them a comic or it is some type of word blood oath, time to re-think your selling strategy.

 

I doubt this post will be popular and it is not meant to slam anybody, espcecially October. For record, I have not had the cirumstance to back out with any deals with any forum members.

[october]

Not sure if you enjoy making dozens of scans, writing dozens of PMs, taking the time to work out a price, and relying on the incoming money only to have people back out. Now that it's clear it doesn't bother you, I hope forum members feel free to waste hours of your time in the future. These weren't cases of needing to see scans or haggling over price, these were "the deal is done, I will send the money" and then several days later hearing "I can't/don't want to pay you for __ reason". That kind of thing is cool with you? I sincerely hope not. The fact that it happens to other people and big time dealers doesn't make it right, so why even bring it up? Because it happens means we should ignore it or just suck it up? I have to tell you, that doesn't make any sense to me at all.

[october]

We are not writing binding contracts here.

 

You couldn't be more wrong. Technically that's EXACTLY what we are doing. If you don't believe me feel free to ask any of the other lawyers on here if a deal agreed to over PM constitutes a binding contractual agreement.

[topofthetotem]

Well When I put the I go through with the deal

The only instance I did not go through with a deal is when Nikos PMed me letting me know that Foolkiller had a slabbed book available of the slame issue he was selling to me, at the same price.

Nikos suggested it would be better for me to purchase Foolkillers copy. Now where else are you gonna find that kind of class from sellers?

I wish both the sellers and buyers will follow through on deals. As this is the safest place on the web to buy comics and I would hate to see it stopped.

thanks Lawrence

[boomtown]

Deals go without a hitch and deals falls through. Boo hoo - that is what happens. Do you think Blazing Bob, Metro or any of the professional dealers cry over spilled milk. There are the situations that "just happen," causing deals to fall through. I am sales and probably have lost tens of thousands of dollars in commissions on people that backed out after all my hard work.

 

No problem at all with your post. Different opinions are great. Just wondering, if the [embarrassing lack of self control] that had wasted your time & cost you thousands had then walked over to the next cubicle & started the same process with your buddy salesman, wouldn't you think he deserved to be told. What if you decided not to mention it & that deal also went sour. Next day you saw him doing the same thing with another buddy down the hall. Sooner or later people need to compare notes. If a guys name comes up once, no problem. If a guys name comes up 4 or 5 times, he's wasting a lot of peoples time. It's silly to compare a $2000 deal with the $10 to $20 BIN going on in this market place.

[BachelorOfComix]

As this is the safest place on the web to buy comics

Exactly. Forumites are held to a higher standard.

[october]

As this is the safest place on the web to buy comics

Exactly. Forumites are held to a higher standard.

 

See, BOC understands.

[BassGMan]

For the most part, this is not a response to any one person.

 

This is totally ridiculous. Welcome to the world of sales, this is what happens. Deals go without a hitch and deals falls through. Boo hoo - that is what happens. Do you think Blazing Bob, Metro or any of the professional dealers cry over spilled milk. There are the situations that "just happen," causing deals to fall through. I am sales and probably have lost tens of thousands of dollars in commissions on people that backed out after all my hard work. It is frustrating , and I think October posted to just vent that frustration, but that is life.

 

October said he lost hundreds of dollars in sales. Did those books just spontaneously combust because they did not sell? Are no longer available and he is never going to be able to sell them again because someone backed out? Is he going to have to re-scan everything for the next buyer? Do any of us know the situation? We all know October is stand up guy but that does mean we should make assumptions. Did the sales fall through after October sent the scans? Did the buyer get a better deal elsewhere? And before anybody says it does not matter - ask yourself if you could get the a book for half the price, you would not because you working on a deal with a forum member. Before you think of an answer, say you found the book for $1000 instead of $2000. Conversely, if a seller here had an offer of $2000 instead of $1000 - what do you think would happen? Business is business. We are not writing binding contracts here. Respect is one thing but there are a myriad of circumstances that can change the dynamics of a deal.

 

There is definitely a blood in the water mob mentality here sometimes. So far I have seen - friends do not stiff friends, save the deception for eBay, they will never learn, bad forumites, name names so the rest of us don't have to deal with these insufficiently_thoughtful_persons...all of this without knowledge of situation. Give me a break, nearly every forum member seems to be a pretty stand up, to say they are deceptive , bad, and idiotic is idiotic in itself. Business is business and there is not always a result for work. That is it's nature. If people think this is a friends only club and we are doing a favor for a friend buy selling them a comic or it is some type of word blood oath, time to re-think your selling strategy.

 

I doubt this post will be popular and it is not meant to slam anybody, espcecially October. For record, I have not had the cirumstance to back out with any deals with any forum members.

 

Actually, your post is very popular with me, and I pretty much agree with most of it. The few times I have had deals go bad as a seller it was a waste of time, certainly. But when a salesman, that is just part of the territory. My wife was a realtor for a couple years a decade or so back. She got out of it because of all the deals that fell through, after spending so much time with them. Very frustrating. Lost commisions of thousands. Of course if there is a flakey buyer that has a reputation for backing out of deals it will become known. But I believe if any of us have to back out for one reason or another and it is mostly an isolated instance, then so be it. [embarrassing lack of self control] happens. No fun for the seller, but that is sales. I'm sure there have been examples when sellers have backed out as well after finding a better offer. Not cool either, but that is sales (and worse in my opinion). Remember, this is not a scam here, just a change of mind. A waste of time yes, a scumbag buyer no. Personally if I say I'll buy, then I'll buy and always have. But if after making a promise to buy, but then some emergency comes up and I now need that money and have to cancel, then hey, [embarrassing lack of self control] happens and I would feel bad about it. That's just life.

[Forbush-Man]

As this is the safest place on the web to buy comics

Exactly. Forumites are held to a higher standard.

 

See, BOC understands.

 

That's right, we police ourselves.

 

 

Sorry Tomega, I couldn't disagree with you more!

[BachelorOfComix]

Actually, your post is very popular with me, and I pretty much agree with most of it. The few times I have had deals go bad as a seller it was a waste of time, certainly. But when a salesman, that is just part of the territory. My wife was a realtor for a couple years a decade or so back. She got out of it because of all the deals that fell through, after spending so much time with them. Very frustrating. Lost commisions of thousands. Of course if there is a flakey buyer that has a reputation for backing out of deals it will become known. But I believe if any of us have to back out for one reason or another and it is mostly an isolated instance, then so be it. [embarrassing lack of self control] happens. No fun for the seller, but that is sales. I'm sure there have been examples when sellers have backed out as well after finding a better offer. Not cool either, but that is sales (and worse in my opinion). Remember, this is not a scam here, just a change of mind. A waste of time yes, a scumbag buyer no. Personally if I say I'll buy, then I'll buy and always have. But if after making a promise to buy, but then some emergency comes up and I now need that money and have to cancel, then hey, [embarrassing lack of self control] happens and I would feel bad about it. That's just life.

Message to everyone: go ahead & feel free to back out on deals with BassGMan because he won't mind. He'll totally understand & won't hold it against you.

[Tomega]

We are not writing binding contracts here.

 

Not sure if you enjoy making dozens of scans, writing dozens of PMs, taking the time to work out a price, and relying on the incoming money only to have people back out. Now that it's clear it doen't bother you, I hope forum members feel free to waste hours of your time in the future. These weren't cases of needing to see scans or haggling over price, these were "the deal is done, I will send the money" and then several days later hearing "I can't/don't want to pay you for __ reason". That kind of thing is cool with you? I sincerely hope not. The fact that it happens to other people and big time dealers doesn't make it right, so why even bring it up? Because it happens means we should ignore it or just suck it up? I have to tell you, that doesn't make any sense to me at all.

 

 

You couldn't be more wrong. Technically that's EXACTLY what we are doing. If you don't believe me feel free to ask any of the other lawyers on here if a deal agreed to over PM constitutes a binding contractual agreement.

 

I tell you, ask one of the lawyers you mentioned and let's see how the "PM's" would hold up in court. There are a whole series of other factors to take into consideration - such as right of recision, what's implied etc. Did the buyer back out of the transaction within 3 days of conclusion of agreement( differs between some states?) And when was that conclusion definitive? Was it over $500? You would be surprised how little those "PM'S" would hold up.

I am not saying that I would like doing work and then the transaction falls through. Should I have to just suck it up? Yes. I do it all the time. That is business and sales. I have been in sales for years and that is what happens. I bring up other dealers because they have probably learned that it is nature of the beast. Did the buyers do this multiple times? I doubt it, it sounds like more like that there were a few buyers who backed out once. You are upset because you were anticipating a return for the investment of your time. It sucks it happened to you but if this is something that you will have to accept and move on or you are going to be very unhappy in the selling of anything.

[Tomega]

Deals go without a hitch and deals falls through. Boo hoo - that is what happens. Do you think Blazing Bob, Metro or any of the professional dealers cry over spilled milk. There are the situations that "just happen," causing deals to fall through. I am sales and probably have lost tens of thousands of dollars in commissions on people that backed out after all my hard work.

 

No problem at all with your post. Different opinions are great. Just wondering, if the [embarrassing lack of self control] that had wasted your time & cost you thousands had then walked over to the next cubicle & started the same process with your buddy salesman, wouldn't you think he deserved to be told. What if you decided not to mention it & that deal also went sour. Next day you saw him doing the same thing with another buddy down the hall. Sooner or later people need to compare notes. If a guys name comes up once, no problem. If a guys name comes up 4 or 5 times, he's wasting a lot of peoples time. It's silly to compare a $2000 deal with the $10 to $20 BIN going on in this market place.

 

We are not talking about happening 4 or 5 times. This sounds like an occurence and we did not know even who it was. Why is it silly to mention a $2000 deal? Why should the value make a difference? It seems the bulk of people is talking that a deal is a deal . October stated it was hundreds of dollars. So let's put it in those terms. If October offered you something for $300 and you agreed but then found it for $150 - would you go through the transaction? Be honest. By the way I have done $2000 and $3000 deals that started through market place .

 

It sucks that the deal fell through but it is the nature of sales. It is not nice, I do not like when it happens to me. Maybe it comes from being in sales for so long that I learned to move on and try to get my next sale.

[ronm3-migration]

We are not writing binding contracts here.

 

Not sure if you enjoy making dozens of scans, writing dozens of PMs, taking the time to work out a price, and relying on the incoming money only to have people back out. Now that it's clear it doen't bother you, I hope forum members feel free to waste hours of your time in the future. These weren't cases of needing to see scans or haggling over price, these were "the deal is done, I will send the money" and then several days later hearing "I can't/don't want to pay you for __ reason". That kind of thing is cool with you? I sincerely hope not. The fact that it happens to other people and big time dealers doesn't make it right, so why even bring it up? Because it happens means we should ignore it or just suck it up? I have to tell you, that doesn't make any sense to me at all.

 

 

You couldn't be more wrong. Technically that's EXACTLY what we are doing. If you don't believe me feel free to ask any of the other lawyers on here if a deal agreed to over PM constitutes a binding contractual agreement.

 

I tell you, ask one of the lawyers you mentioned and let's see how the "PM's" would hold up in court. There are a whole series of other factors to take into consideration - such as right of recision, what's implied etc. Did the buyer back out of the transaction within 3 days of conclusion of agreement( differs between some states?) And when was that conclusion definitive? Was it over $500? You would be surprised how little those "PM'S" would hold up.

I am not saying that I would like doing work and then the transaction falls through. Should I have to just suck it up? Yes. I do it all the time. That is business and sales. I have been in sales for years and that is what happens. I bring up other dealers because they have probably learned that it is nature of the beast. Did the buyers do this multiple times? I doubt it, it sounds like more like that there were a few buyers who backed out once. You are upset because you were anticipating a return for the investment of your time. It sucks it happened to you but if this is something that you will have to accept and move on or you are going to be very unhappy in the selling of anything.

 

 

 

[october]

We are not writing binding contracts here.

 

Not sure if you enjoy making dozens of scans, writing dozens of PMs, taking the time to work out a price, and relying on the incoming money only to have people back out. Now that it's clear it doen't bother you, I hope forum members feel free to waste hours of your time in the future. These weren't cases of needing to see scans or haggling over price, these were "the deal is done, I will send the money" and then several days later hearing "I can't/don't want to pay you for __ reason". That kind of thing is cool with you? I sincerely hope not. The fact that it happens to other people and big time dealers doesn't make it right, so why even bring it up? Because it happens means we should ignore it or just suck it up? I have to tell you, that doesn't make any sense to me at all.

 

 

You couldn't be more wrong. Technically that's EXACTLY what we are doing. If you don't believe me feel free to ask any of the other lawyers on here if a deal agreed to over PM constitutes a binding contractual agreement.

 

I tell you, ask one of the lawyers you mentioned and let's see how the "PM's" would hold up in court. There are a whole series of other factors to take into consideration - such as right of recision, what's implied etc. Did the buyer back out of the transaction within 3 days of conclusion of agreement( differs between some states?) And when was that conclusion definitive? Was it over $500? You would be surprised how little those "PM'S" would hold up.

I am not saying that I would like doing work and then the transaction falls through. Should I have to just suck it up? Yes. I do it all the time. That is business and sales. I have been in sales for years and that is what happens. I bring up other dealers because they have probably learned that it is nature of the beast. Did the buyers do this multiple times? I doubt it, it sounds like more like that there were a few buyers who backed out once. You are upset because you were anticipating a return for the investment of your time. It sucks it happened to you but if this is something that you will have to accept and move on or you are going to be very unhappy in the selling of anything.

 

I don't need to ask a lawyer because I am one. Go read a basic primer on contracts and get back to me. I can assure you that these deals satisfied all the requirements, including the statute of frauds. Do you REALLY want to get into this with me?

[ronm3-migration]

We are not writing binding contracts here.

 

Not sure if you enjoy making dozens of scans, writing dozens of PMs, taking the time to work out a price, and relying on the incoming money only to have people back out. Now that it's clear it doen't bother you, I hope forum members feel free to waste hours of your time in the future. These weren't cases of needing to see scans or haggling over price, these were "the deal is done, I will send the money" and then several days later hearing "I can't/don't want to pay you for __ reason". That kind of thing is cool with you? I sincerely hope not. The fact that it happens to other people and big time dealers doesn't make it right, so why even bring it up? Because it happens means we should ignore it or just suck it up? I have to tell you, that doesn't make any sense to me at all.

 

 

You couldn't be more wrong. Technically that's EXACTLY what we are doing. If you don't believe me feel free to ask any of the other lawyers on here if a deal agreed to over PM constitutes a binding contractual agreement.

 

I tell you, ask one of the lawyers you mentioned and let's see how the "PM's" would hold up in court. There are a whole series of other factors to take into consideration - such as right of recision, what's implied etc. Did the buyer back out of the transaction within 3 days of conclusion of agreement( differs between some states?) And when was that conclusion definitive? Was it over $500? You would be surprised how little those "PM'S" would hold up.

I am not saying that I would like doing work and then the transaction falls through. Should I have to just suck it up? Yes. I do it all the time. That is business and sales. I have been in sales for years and that is what happens. I bring up other dealers because they have probably learned that it is nature of the beast. Did the buyers do this multiple times? I doubt it, it sounds like more like that there were a few buyers who backed out once. You are upset because you were anticipating a return for the investment of your time. It sucks it happened to you but if this is something that you will have to accept and move on or you are going to be very unhappy in the selling of anything.

 

I don't need to ask a lawyer because I am one. Go read a basic primer on contracts and get back to me. I can assure you that these deals satisfied all the requirements, including the statute of frauds. Do you REALLY want to get into this with me?

 

Rip him my man!

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BassGMan]

I guess it all comes down to just business. Business is not always fair, or nice, or dependable. Your work does not always pay off. Sometimes you get the good breaks, sometimes everything that happens just sucks. As long as everybody is honest and forthwright, just deal with it and move on. This is what businessmen deal with every single day, from cars, to homes, to corporate mergers to comics. As said before, if it becomes a pattern, that's one thing. The buyer will not have good credit and will develop a bad rep. But otherwise, that's just business. We should all think back in our lives for a time when we offered to buy something (not just comics) but then had to back out for some reason or another. I'm sure I must have done it before, but I certainly don't make it a habit.

[ronm3-migration]

I guess it all comes down to just business. Business is not always fair, or nice, or dependable. Your work does not always pay off. Sometimes you get the good breaks, sometimes everything that happens just sucks. As long as everybody is honest and forthwright, just deal with it and move on. This is what businessmen deal with every single day, from cars, to homes, to corporate mergers to comics. As said before, if it becomes a pattern, that's one thing. The buyer will not have good credit and will develop a bad rep. But otherwise, that's just business. We should all think back in our lives for a time when we offered to buy something (not just comics) but then had to back out for some reason or another. I'm sure I must have done it before, but I certainly don't make it a habit.

 

Yeah but it sounds like they backed out after purchasing more books from someone else.

[boomtown]

October stated it was hundreds of dollars. So let's put it in those terms. If October offered you something for $300 and you agreed but then found it for $150 - would you go through the transaction? Be honest. By the way I have done $2000 and $3000 deals that started through market place .

 

Honestly, I wouldn't back out of a deal over $150. I might buy both items & then unload the higher priced one asap to offset the loss, but the deal would have to be much higher to make me back out. That's my main point. The deals that have been going on in this new BIN setup are not in the $1000s or for the most part $100s. It's people selling stuff off at fair market value, a friendlier marketplace than even the "Ebay, Retailers & Dealers Marketplace right below this one. That's the reason it is much more popular right now.

 

If I did have to back out of a deal, it wouldn't bother me at all that my name was revealed. [embarrassing lack of self control] does happen, fact of life. It's not a huge deal, but neither is having your name outed in such a situation. If it's a 1 time deal, no one will care at all. I don't see the reason everyone considers it an ugly mob type mentality. It's a checks & balance system to weed out the people that are just screwing around trying to look like bigshots. We really don't know whether the people that stiffed October have also stiffed 3 or 4 other people on the board. If people started naming names it would become obvious real quick. How many people do you think a system like this would have helped avoid Lighthouse? I bought from Lighthouse without a clue, it wasn't until the books were late that I researched him & found his mess. I'm just happy mine did finally arrive.

 

I'm hearing a lot of the word "business" thrown around, & that's probably where the line is divided. Comics will never be a business for me even though I have sold many books, it's just a fun hobby. Something to get away from the workday for awhile. If it becomes a business to me then it would be time to move on, 'cause I sure can't make a decent living doing it. Every time I scan a book to sell I end up wasting 20 minutes reading it.

[joe_collector]

I have about 2 dozen books sitting around that were BIN'd but never paid for. Not a big deal in that it's partially my fault for not PMing the winners after they did.

 

I've gotta say that this is pretty strange, as it's the seller's duty to send over the final sales amount, shipping, Paypal ID, address for mailing checks/MO, and other pertinent info. Until that happens, the transaction cannot go forward.

 

I always assume that if the seller has not replied, he's busy with all the sales and shipping, and will in the near future, so I don't bug him.

 

Many of your buyers may be thinking the exact same thing.

[THE_BEYONDER]

I have about 2 dozen books sitting around that were BIN'd but never paid for. Not a big deal in that it's partially my fault for not PMing the winners after they did.

 

I've gotta say that this is pretty strange, as it's the seller's duty to send over the final sales amount, shipping, Paypal ID, address for mailing checks/MO, and other pertinent info. Until that happens, the transaction cannot go forward.

 

I always assume that if the seller has not replied, he's busy with all the sales and shipping, and will in the near future, so I don't bug him.

 

Many of your buyers may be thinking the exact same thing.

 

What happens in most cases with all these BIN auctions is that buyers would like to wait to see what else you're listing to save on shipping if possible. They don't see anything else....and the initial purchase just gets lost in the shuffle.

 

I don't really care....but it gets annoying when that same buyer shows up via PM about 2 weeks later & asks if the book is still available.

 

I'll be contacting people who bought things yesterday, and consider any other outstanding purchases now terminated.