divad's All DAREDEVIL All The Time BIN

[divad]

So Joe will twist the numbers to show that his statements were correct, but in actuality he was WAY wrong . . . as the print runs for the Miller issues never even approached the print runs for the "also ran" series . . .

[Forbush-Man]

 

...and how much is "Way wrong"?

[divad]

 

...and how much is "Way wrong"?

 

Even at their peak, Miller's Daredevil's didn't surpass the average print run for DD #141 - #152 . . . in fact the print run at the middle of Miller's run was less than half of that of DD #150

[joe_collector]

Even at their peak, Miller's Daredevil's didn't surpass the average print run for DD #141 - #152 . . . in fact the print run at the middle of Miller's run was less than half of that of DD #150

 

Seriously, try to understand what those numbers mean before posting gibberish.

 

The first number you use is TOTAL PRINT RUN, then you switch to CIRCULATION later on. The Krause guide you're uses PAID CIRCULATION as its numbers, not PRINT RUN.

 

So Daredevil went from paid circulation of:

 

125K as of issue 152

 

and ROSE to

 

259K by the end of Miller's run.

 

Do the math.

 

And if the FACTS are "twisting things" then, I'm twisting baybee!!!

[joe_collector]

 

...and how much is "Way wrong"?

 

What does it feel like to be a certified insufficiently_thoughtful_person?

[boomtown]

DD #152 has Statement filed on 9/20/77:

 

avg print run: 312,799

avg subs: 1,924

avg total paid:125,079

samples: 200

office use: 1,120

max existent 126,399

60% of run returned

 

DD#168-#177

Circulation: 130,239

 

DD#178-#189

Circulation: 180,199

 

DD#190-#201

Circulation: 259,013

 

I still read that as JC was correct. The DD #152 , while print run was 312,000, only sold 125,000- while the Miller issues climbed from 130,000 to 259,000. Without checking CBG, I'm sure the DD 152 number came from the yearly report inside the comic book (mostly newstand info) while the Miller books were from Capital City/Diamond sales numbers(direct sales info).

[joe_collector]

I still read that as JC was correct.

 

Obviously, and these two guys should have thought for a few minutes before trying to "prove me wrong".

 

And incidentally, I was not taking this from "personal musings" but the many articles and interviews I've read on Frank Miller. I didn't know the exact numbers, but I trusted him when he said that sales increased dramatically during his run.

[divad]

The first number you use is TOTAL PRINT RUN, then you switch to CIRCULATION later on. The Krause guide you're uses PAID CIRCULATION as its numbers, not PRINT RUN.

 

So Daredevil went from paid circulation of:

 

125K as of issue 152

 

and ROSE to

 

259K by the end of Miller's run.

 

Do the math.

 

And if the FACTS are "twisting things" then, I'm twisting baybee!!!

 

No actually wrong again, Joe - but we're used to that.

 

Look back to what we were talking about . . . "print run"

 

All the numbers are from the Krause Guide, the reason they change the reference is due to the direct market change. Before the direct market they cited the total number of copies which were printed. That is what we are talking about. The print run.

 

After the direct market, they referred to it as Circulation, as it was one and the same. Period. Printed, Sold, and delivered. No returns. Period.

 

You're a freakin' stubborn mooooron, nevermind egotist . . .

 

But I still love you . . . you just can't accept facts for what they are.

[divad]

DD #152 has Statement filed on 9/20/77:

 

avg print run: 312,799

avg subs: 1,924

avg total paid:125,079

samples: 200

office use: 1,120

max existent 126,399

60% of run returned

 

DD#168-#177

Circulation: 130,239

 

DD#178-#189

Circulation: 180,199

 

DD#190-#201

Circulation: 259,013

 

I still read that as JC was correct. The DD #152 , while print run was 312,000, only sold 125,000- while the Miller issues climbed from 130,000 to 259,000. Without checking CBG, I'm sure the DD 152 number came from the yearly report inside the comic book (mostly newstand info) while the Miller books were from Capital City/Diamond sales numbers(direct sales info).

 

And that has what to do with "print run"?

[Forbush-Man]

 

...and how much is "Way wrong"?

 

What does it feel like to be a certified insufficiently_thoughtful_person?

 

Why don't you tell me.....you're the experienced one here, Jerk!

[joe_collector]

All the numbers are from the Krause Guide, the reason they change the reference is due to the direct market change. Before the direct market they cited the total number of copies which were printed. That is what we are talking about. The print run.

 

 

So you are REALLY saying that the Newstand Market totally disappeared circa 1977?

 

Is that what you're shovelling.

 

Sorry, but I gotta go now.

[boomtown]

And that has what to do with "print run"?

 

That's what I should be asking you. As JCs' initial post isn't discussing "print runs", it's discussing "sales."

[joe_collector]

That's what I should be asking you. As JCs' initial post isn't discussing "print runs", it's discussing "sales."

 

We are in the midst of a "I'm not wrong, blast you" denial phase, and the "direct market" excuse was a real ripe one at that.

[divad]

I dunno, I imagine the print runs from #150 on varied little. It's not like #158 is at all that "rare"

 

This is the post that started this valuable discussion . . .

[joe_collector]

Wrong yet again. This is the statement of MINE you disagreed with and posted numbers to refute:

 

When Miller first came onboard Daredevil, the book was a low-selling also-ran, and when he left, it was one of the Marvel's best-sellers.

[divad]

Wrong yet again. This is the statement of MINE you disagreed with and posted numbers to refute:

 

When Miller first came onboard Daredevil, the book was a low-selling also-ran, and when he left, it was one of the Marvel's best-sellers.

 

Yes, and we all know that Joe doesn't actually read anyone else's posts, but his own . . .

 

That's the definition of an egotist . . .

[joe_collector]

Divad, you must know your stance is totally whacked, and that anyone involved in comics back then knows that Miller Daredevils were probably the hottest book on the shelf, exceeded only by the multiple-copy buying X-Men fanatics.

 

When DD 181 came out, it was a real event, and the book sold like hotcakes, and each subsequent issue was also a red-hot seller.

 

Frank Miller has stated this, Jim Shooter has stated this. The "Daredevil Index" states this. The foreward to Miller's DD TPB states this. Comic store owners and people buying comics back then know this. The paid circulation numbers confirm it.

 

At what point do we just tune out the ravings of a single guy, who somehow believes DD 152 outsold DD 181.

 

EDIT: One other note of interest is that when Miller came on Daredevil with issue 158, the comic was bi-monthly, which is a guarantee of its low-selling status, and with the hot-selling DD 168 with Elektra (and Miller taking over writing) sales had increased sufficiently for the book to go monthly with issue 170.

[divad]

Divad, you must know your stance is totally whacked, and that anyone involved in comics back then knows that Miller Daredevils were probably the hottest book on the shelf, exceeded only by the multiple-copy buying X-Men fanatics.

 

When DD 181 came out, it was a real event, and the book sold like hotcakes, and each subsequent issue was also a red-hot seller.

 

Frank Miller has stated this, Jim Shooter has stated this. The "Daredevil Index" states this. The foreward to Miller's DD TPB states this. Comic store owners and people buying comics back then know this. The paid circulation numbers confirm it.

 

At what point do we just tune out the ravings of a single guy, who somehow believes DD 152 outsold DD 181.

 

EDIT: One other note of interest is that when Miller came on Daredevil with issue 158, the comic was bi-monthly, which is a guarantee of its low-selling status, and with the hot-selling DD 168 with Elektra (and Miller taking over writing) sales had increased sufficiently for the book to go monthly with issue 170.

 

Joe,

 

I don't disagree with you at all I was talking about "print runs" and you were talking about "sales" - apples and oranges, and I'm sorry for the misunderstanding. I was initially responding to the gent who inquired about how many were out there . . . that somehow got lost in our discussion.

 

I posted the numbers, not to "refute" you, but to simply report the numbers

 

Oh, and btw, don't forget . . . I didn't buy a single comic from anywhere, from 1977 until 2002 (rip van divad)

[joe_collector]

I posted the numbers, not to "refute" you, but to simply report the numbers

 

Yeah right, and all your taunts, insults and slams against myself and my "sales estimates" (when you mistakenly believed yourself to be correct ) were just one big mistake, right?

 

Suck it up, you were wrong, I was right - wasn't the first time and it certainly won't be the last.

 

And P.S., I wouldn't be trumpeting your "I believe the print run of DD 152 was greater than the print run for DD 181-191" too loudly, as with the Direct Market jumping and newstand sales (and print runs) still relatively strong, you'd be well behind on that statement as well.

 

A low-selling, bi-monthly also-ran like DD in the pre-Miller days cannot logically own any print/sales record against hot-selling books like DD 181-191. No way, no how, and I WAS actively buying comics then.

[divad]

I posted the numbers, not to "refute" you, but to simply report the numbers

 

Yeah right, and all your taunts, insults and slams against myself and my "sales estimates" (when you mistakenly believed yourself to be correct ) were just one big mistake, right?

 

Suck it up, you were wrong, I was right - wasn't the first time and it certainly won't be the last.

 

And P.S., I wouldn't be trumpeting your "I believe the print run of DD 152 was greater than the print run for DD 181-191" too loudly, as with the Direct Market jumping and newstand sales (and print runs) still relatively strong, you'd be well behind on that statement as well.

 

A low-selling, bi-monthly also-ran like DD in the pre-Miller days cannot logically own any print/sales record against hot-selling books like DD 181-191. No way, no how, and I WAS actively buying comics then.

 

You gotta love this guy . . . not only does he not know a peace offering when it smacks him in the face . . . but he always needs to get the last word It's positively clinical

 

But I digress, clearly more copies of DD #150 were printed than copies of #168 and you can smoke that one JC

 

Now go mess up someone else's thread, or better yet find your buddy Deathlok