Legitimate Non-Threatening Questions Posed To Matt Nelson

[Ze-man]

I understand that the reason you feel disclosure is easier for the dealer to disclose is because he/she is in the best position to know.

 

For me, the only reason to disclose information as a seller is when it is going to materially affect the value of the product. Now -- I understand that this can be dicey because if the product is being represented to be something that it is not... well... that should also mandate disclosure as well, regardless of value. But from my view, pressing does alter the book sufficiently to require such disclosure.

 

That's sounds on the surface a hypocritical statement...so is the product being misrepresented? And how in god's name is this a good thing? For any buyer?

 

Jim

 

As FFB noted, I meant to say pressing does not alter the book sufficiently to require disclosure.

 

Is the product being misrepresented... not really -- and is it a good thing? It's neither. To me, pressing is just a non factor.

 

 

OK Brian, here we go.

 

Pressing is basically undectable. And since it is undectable you have no control over it. Did this factor into how you arrived at your current buying philosphy? Especially when buying books from a variety of sources? I am sure, in fact I know you ask the seller, or even perhaps assume a book was pressed depending on who you are buying it from. But even if told it WAS pressed, does it just come down to the book itself in front of you simply being the book in front of you? Nothing more, nothing less? Pressed or not, it is now what it is? And if it is a book you need, and the price is right it doesnt matter how it got to the grade given, either raw or slabbed?

 

I understand you dont think pressing is the devil,nor does it harm the books. But doesnt the intentional manipulation of your money from your pocketbook bother you in the least?

 

Or is that just it. There is no manipulation in your eyes , because once pressed the book IS worth more because the flaws were removed and it is now in better condition then it was before.

 

Just trying to understand where you are coming from BK.

 

 

 

Ze-

[Foolkiller]

If you dont believe it will make a difference in the market as far as final price, disclose it if you are that confident, and let the true market decide as far as value of a book.

 

While I've argued there's no obligation to disclose, I've also made this same sentiment known.

 

Right on target Nik. And I wish dealers would take this to heart.

[mica]

The only thing I can suggest is, if its not considered restoration, disclose it, whats the difference.

 

If you dont believe it will make a difference in the market as far as final price, disclose it if you are that confident, and let the true market decide as far as value of a book.

Nikos for Senator.

[Darthdiesel]

Or do we just say "OK, Mark Zaid decides what needs to be disclosed?"

 

Seems like the current state of affairs on these boards...

[mica]

Or do we just say "OK, Mark Zaid decides what needs to be disclosed?"

 

Seems like the current state of affairs on these boards...

[Foolkiller]

I understand that the reason you feel disclosure is easier for the dealer to disclose is because he/she is in the best position to know.

 

For me, the only reason to disclose information as a seller is when it is going to materially affect the value of the product. Now -- I understand that this can be dicey because if the product is being represented to be something that it is not... well... that should also mandate disclosure as well, regardless of value. But from my view, pressing does alter the book sufficiently to require such disclosure.

 

That's sounds on the surface a hypocritical statement...so is the product being misrepresented? And how in god's name is this a good thing? For any buyer?

 

Jim

 

As FFB noted, I meant to say pressing does not alter the book sufficiently to require disclosure.

 

Is the product being misrepresented... not really -- and is it a good thing? It's neither. To me, pressing is just a non factor.

 

 

OK Brian, here we go.

 

Pressing is basically undectable. And since it is undectable you have no control over it. Did this factor into how you arrived at your current buying philosphy? Especially when buying books from a variety of sources? I am sure, in fact I know you ask the seller, or even perhaps assume a book was pressed depending on who you are buying it from. But even if told it WAS pressed, does it just come down to the book itself in front of you simply being the book in front of you? Nothing more, nothing less? Pressed or not, it is now what it is? And if it is a book you need, and the price is right it doesnt matter how it got to the grade given, either raw or slabbed?

 

I understand you dont think pressing is the devil,nor does it harm the books. But doesnt the intentional manipulation of your money from your pocketbook bother you in the least?

 

Or is that just it. There is no manipulation in your eyes , because once pressed the book IS worth more becasue the flaws were removed and it is now in better condition then it was before.

 

Just trying to understand where you are coming from BK.

 

 

 

Ze-

 

At least this is giving me something to do in this incredibly boring deposition which I want to ask like 4 questions in -- been going since 9 AM...

 

Even if I knew the book was pressed (and I have asked recently, and had it confirmed that it had some minor press work done to it), i would still buy it and pay market price. Why? Because pressing has been going on in various forms for years, well before CGC. Dealers will readily admit to this. Now, it is only recently that the scope has become so wide. But I do not hear about books becoming warped or damaged as a result of these books... or perhaps I should say, odd books where people report "strange" defects that look like they come from pressing. If the pressing doesn't harm the book, the book looks like every other high grade book I've ever seen in my life, guess what? i still want the book and will buy it.

 

Intentional manipulation for money? Is product placement in a super market "intentional manipulation for money"? I mean when you're told by a super market "price hold" when in fact it's the same price it's been for years, it's not really on hold -- is it? But you are being manipulated by the advertising to believe that the price is something it is not -- some sort of "special" given out. And it works. Research shows consumers are drawn to items with the "price hold".

 

This is not meant to be an analogy, but rather to illustrate that people are manipulated in their perceptions every day through various means to further the goal of a company making money.

 

The fact of the matter is that a comic book, when pressed professionally, looks aesthetically the same as if it was NOT pressed -- and that's what high grade is all about -- how perfect does it look. Does it take away from the allure of HG? Sure, it makes it less rare, and potentially a bigger pool of manufactured books -- but I'm interested in the aesthetics in combination with it being original with no added materials.

 

Personally, I'd rather have a book that is without the flaws even if that is achieved through some pressing work. It's not a magical solvent, it can't cure everything. It's very minor in most cases.

[Red Hook]

It's very minor in most cases.

 

And you know this because?........

[Foolkiller]

basing it mostly on the explanations of the process given to me by dealers of pressing work they've had done in many cases on certain books. Also, when I've heard Matt and Susan discuss it, they have not made it sound as if it was an extensive process to me -- and a lot of the books that are targetted appear to have very minor problems...

[october]

Or do we just say "OK, Mark Zaid decides what needs to be disclosed?"

 

Seems like the current state of affairs on these boards...

[mica]

Or do we just say "OK, Mark Zaid decides what needs to be disclosed?"

 

Seems like the current state of affairs on these boards...

[maxstuf]

A post above has me wondering, Many say they are not against pressing in general, just the resulting dollar value change.

 

This seems an odd way to present the case.

 

Being concerned that pressing may or may not do long term damage to a desired collectible seems reasonable, but even to care about the financial aspect either way seems to undercut the concern for the book that pressing either effects or it dosen't.

 

Just some thoughts....

[THE_BEYONDER]

Whether the grade is increased or not is irrelevant.

 

[october]

Or do we just say "OK, Mark Zaid decides what needs to be disclosed?"

 

Seems like the current state of affairs on these boards...

[FFB]

Whether the grade is increased or not is irrelevant.

 

 

Put down the bong for once and read the sentence in context.

[esquirecomics]

Or do we just say "OK, Mark Zaid decides what needs to be disclosed?"

 

Seems like the current state of affairs on these boards...

 

exactly! I haven't said a darn thing in this thread for something like 24 hours. Held my tongue. Everybody kept telling me to cool my jets so here I am relaxing actually focusing on legal work today.

 

Yet, both FFB and Darth feel the need to bring me into this conversation for no apparent substantive reason. I appreciate that I am on your mind so much guys!

 

Darth, you in fact have probably just insulted numerous people on the board (although I personally read it as a compliment to me with respect to my vast powers of persuasion and leadership ability), as I guess all my "foot soldiers" simply have no mind of their own to reach independent decisions. I'm glad you think so highly of your fellow forumites who have done nothing other than disagree with your philosophy or views.

 

Back to work for me, and off to the Nats-Yanks game.

[THE_BEYONDER]

I understand that the reason you feel disclosure is easier for the dealer to disclose is because he/she is in the best position to know.

 

For me, the only reason to disclose information as a seller is when it is going to materially affect the value of the product. Now -- I understand that this can be dicey because if the product is being represented to be something that it is not... well... that should also mandate disclosure as well, regardless of value. But from my view, pressing does alter the book sufficiently to require such disclosure.

 

That's sounds on the surface a hypocritical statement...so is the product being misrepresented? And how in god's name is this a good thing? For any buyer?

 

Jim

 

As FFB noted, I meant to say pressing does not alter the book sufficiently to require disclosure.

 

Is the product being misrepresented... not really -- and is it a good thing? It's neither. To me, pressing is just a non factor.

 

We're discussing a process that can potentially turn a $1000 book into a $10,000 book....and yet you feel " pressing does not alter the book sufficiently to require disclosure." ?

[october]

Or do we just say "OK, Mark Zaid decides what needs to be disclosed?"

 

Seems like the current state of affairs on these boards...

 

exactly! I haven't said a darn thing in this thread for something like 24 hours. Held my tongue. Everybody kept telling me to cool my jets so here I am relaxing actually focusing on legal work today.

 

Yet, both FFB and Darth feel the need to bring me into this conversation for no apparent substantive reason. I appreciate that I am on your mind so much guys!

 

Darth, you in fact have probably just insulted numerous people on the board (although I personally read it as a compliment to me with respect to my vast powers of persuasion and leadership ability), as I guess all my "foot soldiers" simply have no mind of their own to reach independent decisions. I'm glad you think so highly of your fellow forumites who have done nothing other than disagree with your philosophy or views.

 

Back to work for me, and off to the Nats-Yanks game.

 

 

Only you could read so much into a couple of meaningless graemlin posts.

[FFB]

Of course there was a substantive reason for my bringing your name up in the discussion. My point was that I don't think it's appropriate for any one collector's sensibilities to form the yardstick by which the rest of the industry's standards are created, or once created, later modified. You've been very vocal about your stance on disclosure since you got here and I think there's little question about where you stand on the issue. You're also one of the few people who have actually taken some steps (however small) to impose those opinions on the rest of the industry. There was nothing negative about my using your name in that context.

[THE_BEYONDER]

Whether the grade is increased or not is irrelevant.

 

 

Put down the bong for once and read the sentence in context.

 

I read it in context...and started laughing. Hence my response.

[esquirecomics]

Or do we just say "OK, Mark Zaid decides what needs to be disclosed?"

 

Seems like the current state of affairs on these boards...

this funky graemlin was saying yea, what insufficiently_thoughtful_persons these forumite lemmings are for following Mark's lead

This one says, what the heck are you talking about? And who you calling a Lemming?

This one says you're all screwey.

 

exactly! I haven't said a darn thing in this thread for something like 24 hours. Held my tongue. Everybody kept telling me to cool my jets so here I am relaxing actually focusing on legal work today.

 

Yet, both FFB and Darth feel the need to bring me into this conversation for no apparent substantive reason. I appreciate that I am on your mind so much guys!

 

Darth, you in fact have probably just insulted numerous people on the board (although I personally read it as a compliment to me with respect to my vast powers of persuasion and leadership ability), as I guess all my "foot soldiers" simply have no mind of their own to reach independent decisions. I'm glad you think so highly of your fellow forumites who have done nothing other than disagree with your philosophy or views.

 

Back to work for me, and off to the Nats-Yanks game.

 

I lost track of what this one was saying. Too many

 

Only you could read so much into a couple of meaningless graemlin posts.

 

Just yours was meaningless. See above.