Transfer stains and grade

[Davenport]

Looking on eBay I noticed some heavy transfer stains on HG books, 9.4 to 9.8, which seemed odd.

Are they treated like a production defect, with no impact on the grade?

 

I looked in both OGGs, but didn't see anything specific, other than the "No soiling, staining, or other discoloration" description.

 

 

[thedude]

yeah, CGC's grading can be a little hard to figure out sometimes.. the best I can figure is that they grade the books on a structural level... tears, creases, staple rust, etc.. but give a pass to ink transfers and dust shadows and things of that nature.

 

I personally HATE ink trasnfer stains, and have passed up some nice (structurally sound) books because I think it ruins the presentation of the book..

 

Their was a book Metro brought for my viewing to Chicago con this past August, and the book would probably get a 6.0 from CGC, because it was nice and flat with minimal wear,.. but on the back (and some of the front) cover, was a huge ink transfer stain from an All-American Comics.. I could read the reversed logo so clearly... I decided not to buy the book, I passed..

[Davenport]

yeah, CGC's grading can be a little hard to figure out sometimes.. the best I can figure is that they grade the books on a structural level... tears, creases, staple rust, etc.. but give a pass to ink transfers and dust shadows and things of that nature.

 

On the top NM grade levels it seems "odd" to me for two reasons:

 

First, it doesn't fit the spirit of nearly mint, or "like new", or "just purchased from the newstand".

 

Second, things that could be corrected for a fee (and not considered restoration), like surface stains, dirt, grime, curls, bends, and dents really get hammered.

But then actual oily ink bleeding that causes discoloration, and/or ink fading, gets a complete pass??

 

That seems weird, unless generating income through reconditioning services is a heavy influence on grading criteria. Or at least it makes some sense when that's factored as a possible "why?".

[thedude]

who knows,.. it's funny that before CGC, books with certain things like ink transfer, miswrap, miscuts, etc.. wouldn't get a second look due to eye appeal, but if they are structurally sound, they have a shot at a NM or higher grade.. this is why so many people still insist on seeing a scan first before buying, no matter what the grade is.. I see it all the time in the WTB section.

[Davenport]

who knows,.. it's funny that before CGC, books with certain things like ink transfer, miswrap, miscuts, etc.. wouldn't get a second look due to eye appeal, but if they are structurally sound, they have a shot at a NM or higher grade.. this is why so many people still insist on seeing a scan first before buying, no matter what the grade is.. I see it all the time in the WTB section.

It seems seeing large scans is getting more and more important.

 

That one above is the back of a 9.8, but this is the first book that made me wonder about transfer stains: LINK

A NM 9.4, when I first saw it I thought "holy cow, that looks like it came from the OJ Simpson collection".

[thedude]

who knows,.. it's funny that before CGC, books with certain things like ink transfer, miswrap, miscuts, etc.. wouldn't get a second look due to eye appeal, but if they are structurally sound, they have a shot at a NM or higher grade.. this is why so many people still insist on seeing a scan first before buying, no matter what the grade is.. I see it all the time in the WTB section.

It seems seeing large scans is getting more and more important.

 

That one above is the back of a 9.8, but this is the first book that made me wonder about transfer stains: LINK

A NM 9.4, when I first saw it I thought "holy cow, that looks like it came from the OJ Simpson collection".

 

the link you supplied is one of Matt Nelson's books...the 9.4 doesn't look as bad as the example you posted above, so your saying that the back cover posted above is on a 9.8 book

 

man, how would you like to buy that sight unseen, hey it's a 9.8 right ? then when you get it... you see the back cover

 

OJ collection..

[Davenport]

 

the link you supplied is one of Matt Nelson's books...the 9.4 doesn't look as bad as the example you posted above, so your saying that the back cover posted above is on a 9.8 book

 

man, how would you like to buy that sight unseen, hey it's a 9.8 right ? then when you get it... you see the back cover

 

OJ collection..

Here's the CGC 9.8, in all it's large-scan glory. LINK

[Point Five]

 

Never thought books above 9.0+ could have transfer stains. I am lost on this as well.

[Sal]

yeah, CGC's grading can be a little hard to figure out sometimes.. the best I can figure is that they grade the books on a structural level... tears, creases, staple rust, etc.. but give a pass to ink transfers and dust shadows and things of that nature.

 

On the top NM grade levels it seems "odd" to me for two reasons:

 

First, it doesn't fit the spirit of nearly mint, or "like new", or "just purchased from the newstand".

 

Second, things that could be corrected for a fee (and not considered restoration), like surface stains, dirt, grime, curls, bends, and dents really get hammered.

But then actual oily ink bleeding that causes discoloration, and/or ink fading, gets a complete pass??

 

That seems weird, unless generating income through reconditioning services is a heavy influence on grading criteria. Or at least it makes some sense when that's factored as a possible "why?".

 

it's not funny to me when you put it that way, since ink transfer stains generally occur at the printer, and as such would be exactly the same book one might find "fresh" at the newsstand.

 

if it were to be conclusively proven that ink transfer came from improper book storage, then i think you would see the kind of downgrading you're expecting

[divad]

 

Never thought books above 9.0+ could have transfer stains. I am lost on this as well.

 

There's no way this book grades a 9.8 (even without the show-thru staining) I suggest that you consider the professional relationship bewteen the submittor and the submittee

 

 

[divad]

since ink transfer stains generally occur at the printer, and as such would be exactly the same book one might find "fresh" at the newsstand.

 

if it were to be conclusively proven that ink transfer came from improper book storage, then i think you would see the kind of downgrading you're expecting

 

Sal,

This does not occur at the printer. It occurs over time as the inks break down. Or it occurs if the book has been subjected to an undue amount of external stress . . .

-D

[Sal]

strike one against divadrabnud for fostering unconstructive dialogue

[thedude]

I always thought that these type of stains, where you can see the outline of a completely different book transferred onto the cover, was a case of books being stacked on top of one another in a pile,..

 

if the books has ink stains straight from the printer, then that's considered "ink overspray".

[Sal]

what i'm suggesting is that when the books are taken off the press and still somewhat "wet" then stacked, some of the ones on the bottom of the stack might transfer a wee bit of ink.

 

this is different than "overspray" which normally refers to distributor spray markings done on the edges while the books are stacked for shipment.

 

i don't see how pressing would cause it because you would need to have two books on the press at once to pass the colour from one to another, and that doesn't seem logical to me

[thedude]

what i'm suggesting is that when the books are taken off the press and still somewhat "wet" then stacked, some of the ones on the bottom of the stack might transfer a wee bit of ink.

 

I see what your saying, but doesn't it also happen from being stacked in a pile by their owners after production ? the book I saw with the All American Comics logo on the back cover was an issue of Action Comics...

[Sal]

what i'm suggesting is that when the books are taken off the press and still somewhat "wet" then stacked, some of the ones on the bottom of the stack might transfer a wee bit of ink.

 

I see what your saying, but doesn't it also happen from being stacked in a pile by their owners after production ? the book I saw with the All American Comics logo on the back cover was an issue of Action Comics...

 

seems just as likely as any other explanation...

 

i dunno...

[thedude]

what i'm suggesting is that when the books are taken off the press and still somewhat "wet" then stacked, some of the ones on the bottom of the stack might transfer a wee bit of ink.

 

I see what your saying, but doesn't it also happen from being stacked in a pile by their owners after production ? the book I saw with the All American Comics logo on the back cover was an issue of Action Comics...

 

seems just as likely as any other explanation...

 

i dunno...

 

cool, either way, best to see the book (no matter grade), before buying, but then we all know that anyway..

[Davenport]

I assumed those stains were the migration of interior acids and ink color "bleeding" through the cover.

A sign of "deterioration" caused by improper storage conditions, what microchamber paper is used to prevent.

[divad]

I assumed those stains were the migration of interior acids and ink color "bleeding" through the cover.

A sign of "deterioration" caused by improper storage conditions, what microchamber paper is used to prevent.

 

Yes, that and the optic "show thru" that is enhanced with the bright scanning light in the presence of microchamber paper. It's got nothing to do with "wet" inks or stacking as suggested by our colleagues above.

[divad]

i dunno...

 

precisely