Check out this sweet page

[Bonds25]

Green Lantern/Green Arrow Neal Adams page

[500Club]

Adams was so far ahead of his time.

 

I look at his work, and it's just so comfortable to the eye.

[dam60]

That's some crazy money . . . . original art really does command some primo prices!

 

DAM

[aardvark88]

That's cheap compared to N Adams X-men orig. art pages. More Marvel zombie bidders.

Keep in mind, the orig. art market is really in its infancy compared to hyped up silver Marvel cgc 9.4+ prices.

[murph0]

From what I can tell, the collecting portion of original artwork is in it's infancy but the prices certainly aren't.. some of that stuff is out the window :\

 

Brian

[comicartfan]

From what I can tell, the collecting portion of original artwork is in it's infancy but the prices certainly aren't.. some of that stuff is out the window :\

 

Brian

 

that is exactly what we were saying about the intital prices of the CGC stuff and now some of those prices look like a bargin. I think that the prices that are being realized on some of this artwork will be out of this world ! - I have been trying to grab some pieces here and there before it gets out of hand, but it's cutting into my comic money ! -

[murph0]

I think the problem is that the artwork portion isn't as universal as the deep pockets that are in regular artwork collecting.. and your avg comic collector can't delve into this market at all. If they can't afford a grand for a comic, they certainly can't afford these decent pieces that cost 5-15 grand. Personally I think the majority of the comic collector market (which it stands to reason would be most eager for this stuff) are priced out. We've seen it in CGC where only a few buy the really expensive books, and occasionally an unknown will step up and make one big purchase.. but that's certainly an exception and not the rule.

Just like comics, I believe there's a ceiling for this stuff..and it's closer to the ceiling IMO than it is to the floor.

 

Brian

[COI]

Money is not the only problem with collecting original art. Even if you have deep pockets, setting goals and seeking to achieve them is very difficult, almost to the point of impossible.

 

Someone with deep pockets can set a goal to collect ASM #1-10 in CGC 9.4, for example. A tough feat, but all it really requires is patience and money. Eventually, you know even the toughest issues will come up for sale sooner or later. But patience and money is not enough if you want to set a specific original art collecting goal. It seems to be a small community where all the serious collectors involved know of, and form relationships with one another. From the few stories I've read/heard, some of the best aquisitions in the nicest collections have come privately, from one collector tipping off another etc.. And once pieces are sold, very often they're off the market permanently , since original art is not really ideal for "flippers". And you'll also find that many collectors will only let pieces go in trade, not cash. Why? Because like I said, money is not equal or enough to successfully collect in this market. This is in strong contrast to the CGC market, where shaking around enough dough will get you pretty much anything.

 

All these complications make it beyond challenging into the realm of aggrivating(for me anyway). That's why, even though I've considered it many times, I probably won't get into original art.

[rob_react]

Using this Adams piece as an example, let's think about this for a minute. Adams did 13 issues with, let's say, 22 pages per issue. That's a total of 286 pages of Adams Green Lantern art. Of course, not all of those pages are created equal, some are far more collectible than others, but even still the fact that there are only a POSSIBLE 286 pieces to go around should give you some idea why art prices are "high." With that limited a supply it doesn't take very many hard core collectors at all to move prices up. And when you add in people who just want a handful of select pieces and will only bid every once and a while, the potential pool of buyers on a page like that becomes a healthy percentage of the actual number of pages that Adams actually did. That's some competition. As more awareness of the Original Art market comes into being that competition is only going to get stronger. Put the number of funded and interested potential bidders up to just 300 and all of a sudden you can see where the bidding on any Adams art page from GL could become a big game of musical chairs, with people desperate to not get left standing when the music stops.

 

Now play this game with Silver Age art and take into account rates of attrition and condition.

 

Personally, I don't think the art market is fully mature.

 

[Zonker]

Using this Adams piece as an example, let's think about this for a minute. Adams did 13 issues with, let's say, 22 pages per issue. That's a total of 286 pages of Adams Green Lantern art. Of course, not all of those pages are created equal, some are far more collectible than others, but even still the fact that there are only a POSSIBLE 286 pieces to go around should give you some idea why art prices are "high." With that limited a supply it doesn't take very many hard core collectors at all to move prices up. And when you add in people who just want a handful of select pieces and will only bid every once and a while, the potential pool of buyers on a page like that becomes a healthy percentage of the actual number of pages that Adams actually did. That's some competition. As more awareness of the Original Art market comes into being that competition is only going to get stronger. Put the number of funded and interested potential bidders up to just 300 and all of a sudden you can see where the bidding on any Adams art page from GL could become a big game of musical chairs, with people desperate to not get left standing when the music stops.

 

Now play this game with Silver Age art and take into account rates of attrition and condition.

 

Personally, I don't think the art market is fully mature.

 

You put your finger on it in mentioning attrition. Adams may have gotten lots of his originals back, but he would be an exception. Prior to the early 1970s, most of this stuff was thrown away by the publisher. Supposedly Len Wein and Marv Wolfman rescued a number of pieces from DC just minutes away from the incinerator.

 

So one huge obstacle in taking up collecting original comics artwork is no one (to my knowledge) has really the foggiest idea how many pieces of original art pre-1974 are even still in existance!

[dam60]

AK and Rob both raise some great points. Here are some observations from what I have experienced in the original art market:

 

1 - Some Pieces are Just Not for Sale

Because original art is a completely unique item some pieces are just not for sale since once it finds a permanent home it will never be for sale again

 

2 - Some Original Art Just Sucks

While there is a lot of great art out there, how many of us want a panel page from a random issue of Batman where there is no Batman, no name villians, no Gordon, no Robin, etc. just some no name thugs planning a robbery? IMO look for the good stuff to keep on appreciating and the bad stuff to be worth next to nothing . . .

 

3 - Prices vary Wildly

This is because you might have x number of serious abc collectors. If one of those guys just made a major purchase and the piece or art doesn't tickly the fancy of enough of the remaining x serious collectors, the piece might go "cheap"

 

4 - Published Art Almost Always Goes for More than Commissions

Just the way it is . . .

 

I too agree that the market really isn't developed . . .

 

DAM

[COI]

I agree that I don't think the art segment of this hobby is fully developed. But my above observations show that the number of potential future collectors will be limited, and nost just by $$$.

 

Ever wonder exactly what it is about Marvel Silver that makes it drive the back issue market? Sure, the stuff is great artistically, and has historical significance within the hobby, but another big part of it is that quite simply, the books are available. And this availability means that there is always the possibility of finding any Marvel silver book, in almost any grade, with enough persistence. So you can then set out specific goals, and focus your resources on those goals. But with art, it's much more difficult. You have to set very broad goals, and in most cases, you have to take what you can get, when you can get it.

 

For example, if I ever could, I would love to own an Original Romita Sr. ASM cover, as I'm sure a lot of people would. But even if I had 50K in the war chest(which I currently DO NOT), how long would I have to wait? Who knows! And if one finally comes up, I'd have to decide if that's the one to go for or if I should wait for another. And who is to say another will even become available anytime soon, let alone one of my favorites? So unless I had almost unlimited funds, that's just too much for me to think about and would take the enjoyment out of collecting for me. At least with comics, I have options. If 9.4's of a certain key command too much, I can opt to find a 9.2 or 9.0 etc... and if you pass on a book, it's fine because there is ALWAYS something to buy.

[murph0]

I would like to reaffirm that most will be priced out of this market.. would an ASM cover be nice? Yes it would, but when you have to pay 15k for even a crappy cover, it's pricing far too many ppl out. I'm as hardcore ASM as they come and I would never shell out anything more than a couple grand for an original cover.

And as AK said, it suffers from the only 1 piece so it's next to impossible to find syndrome. You want an ASM 347 cover? Best of luck finding it. Even with the money ppl can't draw out the worst ASM covers without going way overboard on the prices.

I believe that most people will turn to cover recreations due to the far lesser cost and they can get the same artist (usually to do the cover over).

 

Brian

[aardvark88]

Sal Buscema is doing Marvel cover orig. art recreations now that are being resold on eBay for around $800. This is very high & close to what (RIP) J Buscema's Silver Surfer & Avengers cover recreations are selling for $900-1,200.

 

Some of the Heritage comic art is estimated realistically:

J Byrne X-men 120? pg. 1 splash w/ Alpha Flight at $10k

Some of the estimates are to the MOON:

M Kaluta Shadow #1 cvr art at a dreamy $25k. wtf??

[delekkerste]

Some of the estimates are to the MOON:

 

No kidding...I almost fell out of my chair when I saw that the Frazetta Vampirella sketch was listed at "$35,000-up".

 

Are you kidding me??? I know it's Frazetta and the piece is lovely, but that piece (a) is not published, (b) is pencils only, © has no background, (d) is not old (1991) and was not done when Frazetta was doing Warren covers, (e) is only 8.5x10" with, again, no background, and (f) is estimated at THIRTY FIVE THOUSAND DOLLARS?!! That's got to be more than 20x more expensive than a comparable pin-up (and that's being conservative) by any other artist who was still working in comics after the creation of Vampirella in 1969.

 

For $35,000, you could create an awesome Warren Vampirella original art collection including some Enrich painted covers (at $6,000-$8,000 each), Gonzalez panel pages ($500ish each), Gonzalez splashes & pin-ups ($1,500-$4,000 each), and Mayo panel pages and pin-ups ($300-$800 each).

 

Gene

[rob_react]

I would like to reaffirm that most will be priced out of this market.. would an ASM cover be nice? Yes it would, but when you have to pay 15k for even a crappy cover, it's pricing far too many ppl out. I'm as hardcore ASM as they come and I would never shell out anything more than a couple grand for an original cover.

And as AK said, it suffers from the only 1 piece so it's next to impossible to find syndrome. You want an ASM 347 cover? Best of luck finding it. Even with the money ppl can't draw out the worst ASM covers without going way overboard on the prices.

I believe that most people will turn to cover recreations due to the far lesser cost and they can get the same artist (usually to do the cover over).

 

Brian

 

But you aren't "as hardcore ASM" as they come when it comes to original art, just comics. There's a big difference. If your attitude changed and you stopped mostly collecting comics and started mostly collecting original art, then the money you would be willing to spend on art would be different. The same goes with Andrew's comments. Sure there are plenty of high grade keys you could buy with your war chest, but what if you weren't focusing on high grade comic books and you were, instead, focusing on original art? Then that argument magically disappears. And there are plenty of people who just collect original art. For example, the comicart-l list on yahoo has something like 1500 members.

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/comicart-l/

 

http://www.comicartmuseum.org/comicart/cal.asp

 

Also, some of the things that you guys are talking about as drawbacks to collecting original art are exactly the same things that draw people into collecting high grade books, just more so. Most specifically the difficulty. Original art is a challenge above and beyond all but the most dedicated comic collecting pursuits. That's an APPEAL to some people, just the way that only buying ASMs in 9.0 or better is, only more so.

 

All I'm trying to do is point out that the way that people on here collect is not the only high end way to collect "comics" and comparing what high grade comics buyers will spend on original art is pointless. Ask high end art buyers what they'd spend on a CGC graded book and they'd say the same thing in reverse- "why would I spend $15,000 on a Daredevil #1 in 9.4.? With that money I could buy a page from the book and still have enough left over to buy a couple of Miller pages and a Romita jr. cover!"

 

[Joanna]

When I was collecting comics the most I ever spent on a book was around $300 for a GA book, and that was a major decision. But I spent much more than that on art with little hesitation. Any piece of comic art is one of a kind. One. The books are all mass-produced and if you miss one, you can most likely find another. Even in high grade (we have no idea what grades are out there, what hasn't been found, etc.). But you'll never find a second piece of original art (recreations don't count because there'll always be an original that is worth far more. Like the differnce between a true mint comic and a G+ that's been restored to NM).

 

I spent thousands on art and hated to part with any of it. When I did, I got more than what I paid. I had Jose Louis Garcia-Lopez art from the Superman vs. Wonder Woman tabloid that was killer. I had a Perez cover from a Wonder Woman Annual. I had some Kurt Schaffenberger Lois Lane pages from Superman Family, and some smaller pieces from various artists I'd gotten at cons. All gone. But the best piece was a Geoge Perez rendered pencil that was beyond gorgeous. Got it for $750. I put it up on ebay for a minimum bid of $2,500. I had several people contact me, telling me it was too high and that they'd pay me $2,000 in cash immediately if I'd just end the auction -- and fast. I think I got 4 separate offers, all exactly the same. I turned them all down and left it up. It sold for close to $2,900 to a big art dealer on the east coast. I'm positive he can get more for it.

 

Comparing comics to art in terms of investment return, art was by far the more profitable (though I'd never intended it to be for profit). I was a very careful buyer -- I only bought what I really loved. When I started to sell, I figured that if I loved it, others would probably love it, too.

 

I still have some art on my walls, though a lot less (kept my John Byrne Wonder Woman pages, my Curt Swan Wonder Woman page plus a sketch he drew for me, and the Perez Wonder Woman/Superman kiss piece I posted awhile back. Couldn't bring myself to sell it). I miss the other pieces -- especially the Perez -- but at the time, they were all necessary sales. Someday, I hope to have enough money to buy more art. I'll probably still buy PoS books in that future time. I just don't care enough about condition to worry about high grade collecting. However, the art I buy will be 1st class.

 

To each his or her own. Neither position (high grade comics vs. high quality art) is more valid than the other. If you go by your own sense of value, you'll have no regrets.

 

-- Joanna

[FlyingDonut]

The only thing I've ever regretted selling was a piece of original art. I had for a long time the last page from Swamp Thing 53, which is a full page splash of Batman cradling Abby in his arms above the smoking body of the Swamp Thing. Art by John Totleben. I bought it directly from Totleben in 1987, and held it for 15 years - I was offered $2500 for it and took it, and the minute I gave it to the guy I wanted it back. If you have the book, take a look at the page - it was stunning in black and white.

[Joanna]

The piece I sold is attached.

[dam60]

Pretty pic Joanna . ..

 

DAM