Would you consider these 2 "procedures" restoration ???

[mica]

mechanicle

a mechanized popsicle

[showcase4]

mechanicle

a mechanized popsicle

 

[infinite_comics-migration]

and goes back to my original question of....is tape removal resto if nothing else is done to the book?

 

Did this thread just lap itself? The answer is "yes" - and yes, you will own a restored book.

[FFB]

How is the addition of tape on your book considered restoration?

 

good question.....and the answer is, I don't know what else to call it as the purpose was, in this case, to seal a splitting spine. Tape has always had this "get out of jail free" card with our hobby....it is exempt from being considered resto if it is to seal a tear, but glue is considered resto if it is used for the same purpose.

 

So if we don't call tape resto on this book, then what do we call tape removal? Is that resto? tape removal? non- resto removal of a foreign object?..and goes back to my original question of....is tape removal resto if nothing else is done to the book?

 

 

and next we have the one I forget to mention at the beginning of the post....this one really messes with my head. I have erased a name from the front of a book with a vinyl eraser...the name was written in pencil ( not by me )

 

would you consider the proccess of erasing the name restoration?

 

Tape does not get a "get out of jail free" card. It is one of the most serious defects a comic book can have, and it is devastating to the grade of a book. Just because it isn't also considered restoration doesn't mean it gets a free pass.

 

Personally, I do not consider non-archival tape to be restoration -- I consider it a serious defect, since it (a) is very harmful to the book, (b) does not make the book look like it used to look (since you can see the ugly tape and the tear it is holding in place), and © it does not improve the grade of the book.

[showcase4]

Tape does not get a "get out of jail free" card. It is one of the most serious defects a comic book can have, and it is devastating to the grade of a book. Just because it isn't also considered restoration doesn't mean it gets a free pass.

 

Personally, I do not consider non-archival tape to be restoration -- I consider it a serious defect, since it (a) is very harmful to the book, (b) does not make the book look like it used to look (since you can see the ugly tape and the tear it is holding in place), and © it does not improve the grade of the book.

 

FFB,

I'm very glad you mentioned this. My "get out of jail free" card comment had to do with market acceptance of tape....not the harmful chemical effects it has on the book it is attached to.

 

From a market standpoint, a spine loaded up with tape is not restoration, but a grade lowering defect.....vs. a single drop of glue on the spine of a book, which sets off all the "restoration" alarms with both collectors and CGC

[FFB]

Tape does not get a "get out of jail free" card. It is one of the most serious defects a comic book can have, and it is devastating to the grade of a book. Just because it isn't also considered restoration doesn't mean it gets a free pass.

 

Personally, I do not consider non-archival tape to be restoration -- I consider it a serious defect, since it (a) is very harmful to the book, (b) does not make the book look like it used to look (since you can see the ugly tape and the tear it is holding in place), and © it does not improve the grade of the book.

 

FFB,

I'm very glad you mentioned this. My "get out of jail free" card comment had to do with market acceptance of tape....not the harmful chemical effects it has on the book it is attached to.

 

From a market standpoint, a spine loaded up with tape is not restoration, but a grade lowering defect.....vs. a single drop of glue on the spine of a book, which sets off all the "restoration" alarms with both collectors and CGC

 

Here's the difference though. A book with a spine loaded with tape is going to grade out at Blue label 3.0 or so, even if the book is otherwise in nice shape. A book with a dot of glue might grade out at Blue label 9.2 with notes if it is truly only a dot of glue (assuming it is a GA book from 1950 or prior). If it is more than just a dot of glue, then maybe it gets a purple label 9.2 with Slight (P) or Slight (A) notes. The purple 9.2 slight (P) will usually sell for more than a Blue 3.0 with loads of tape.

 

Tape is not "accepted" by the market. Most collectors hate tape even more than they hate restoration.

[showcase4]

Tape is not "accepted" by the market. Most collectors hate tape even more than they hate restoration.

 

Now THAT is a great question that I would love to hear others opinions on....what do you say guys, which would you rather have on a book....

a fair amount of tape or a little glue? ( assuming the book is raw )

[FFB]

Tape is not "accepted" by the market. Most collectors hate tape even more than they hate restoration.

 

Now THAT is a great question that I would love to hear others opinions on....what do you say guys, which would you rather have on a book....

a fair amount of tape or a little glue? ( assuming the book is raw )

 

Depends on what you mean by glue. Assuming you mean archival quality adhesive, such as wheat paste, I would take a little bit of wheat paste over a fair amount of tape, hands down. You can always just pull apart a tear seal that is held together with wheat paste, and then what you have is an unrestored book with a virtually invisible stain.

[action1kid]

The tape is going to bring down the grade alot more than the dot of glue will, But the tape wont put it in a plod and a dot or more of glue might.So being that as it may,its a good question. Id take the dot of glue if it was in a blue holder.

[ciorac]

Removing tape with a hot air gun and tweezers is not resto, IMO. Removing it with a chemical solvent is most defininately resto (or conservation really IMO).

 

 

It's only not restoration if you remove the tape with a flame thrower, then it is incineration

[ciorac]

How is the addition of tape on your book considered restoration?

 

good question.....and the answer is, I don't know what else to call it as the purpose was, in this case, to seal a splitting spine. Tape has always had this "get out of jail free" card with our hobby....it is exempt from being considered resto if it is to seal a tear, but glue is considered resto if it is used for the same purpose.

 

So if we don't call tape resto on this book, then what do we call tape removal? Is that resto? tape removal? non- resto removal of a foreign object?..and goes back to my original question of....is tape removal resto if nothing else is done to the book?

 

 

and next we have the one I forget to mention at the beginning of the post....this one really messes with my head. I have erased a name from the front of a book with a vinyl eraser...the name was written in pencil ( not by me )

 

would you consider the proccess of erasing the name restoration?

 

Tape does not get a "get out of jail free" card. It is one of the most serious defects a comic book can have, and it is devastating to the grade of a book. Just because it isn't also considered restoration doesn't mean it gets a free pass.

 

Personally, I do not consider non-archival tape to be restoration -- I consider it a serious defect, since it (a) is very harmful to the book, (b) does not make the book look like it used to look (since you can see the ugly tape and the tear it is holding in place), and © it does not improve the grade of the book.

 

The only thing I can add to this is that, crappy restoration is still restoration. If the attempt was made to improve the grade by some device or methodology then it was restored. Actual improvement is not necessary. See the Batman that Bluechip posted in this thread:

 

Ugly Restored Batman

[showcase4]

The only thing I can add to this is that, crappy restoration is still restoration. If the attempt was made to improve the grade by some device or methodology then it was restored. Actual improvement is not necessary. See the Batman that Bluechip posted in this thread:

 

WOW!..Susan Cicconi did not do her best work on this one, that's for sure!

(Susan, if you're reading this..I kid of course)

 

[showcase4]

we have the one I forget to mention at the beginning of the post....this one really messes with my head. I have erased a name from the front of a book with a vinyl eraser...the name was written in pencil ( not by me )

 

would you consider the proccess of erasing the name restoration?

[whetteon]

So I'm confused. The intent to remove spine stress from a comic book by placing heavy objects on it for extended periods of time is considered to NOT be restoration. But the intent to PAY someone to remove spine stress from a comic book by placing heavy objects on it for extended periods of time IS restoration.? Can I have my cake and eat it too?

 

Obviously the answer to both questions is yes. If you understand that the definition of comic restoration is trying to restore a book to a previous state then how is it NOT considered restoration when a forum member just said he did this to his book with every intention to remove the spine roll? What am I missing here? Is it that fact that someone did one with machinery and another at his home?

 

Verbal gymnastics is right.

[showcase4]

Obviously the answer to both questions is yes. If you understand that the definition of comic restoration is trying to restore a book to a previous state then how is it NOT considered restoration when a forum member just said he did this to his book with every intention to remove the spine roll? What am I missing here? Is it that fact that someone did one with machinery and another at his home?

 

Verbal gymnastics is right.

 

This was the genreal overwhelming consensus, right or wrong, regarding the following 2 scenerios: pressing and tape removal

 

 

#1- a comic intentionally placed under a stack of heavy tiles for a considerable time for the purpose of spine roll correction, cover flatening, and/or to minimize cover creasing is not restoration

 

#2- a comic placed in a press where pressure and heat are applied for the same purpose as above is restoration

 

#3- tape removal using chemicals to disolve the adhesive is restoration

 

So I think everyone should go to Home Depot this weekend and get some ceramic tiles, bacause you just may be able to turn your VG into a VG/F and keep your label blue! ( not that machine pressing triggers a purple label..but that's a whole different topic )

[infinite_comics-migration]

So I'm confused. The intent to remove spine stress from a comic book by placing heavy objects on it for extended periods of time is considered to NOT be restoration.

 

IIRC, this is because there is no heat and/or no moisture added to the procedure, plus the difference in pressure is substantial. I'd do a forum search for one of the hundreds of pressing threads or ask someone better versed for the specifics (or PM restoman).

 

But the intent to PAY someone to remove spine stress from a comic book by placing heavy objects on it for extended periods of time IS restoration.?

 

I'm pretty sure this isn't how Matt Nelson and others press comics

[whetteon]

Well I was with you guys on the whole “pressing is restoration” thing until now. I can’t be apart of a movement who seems confused on what they are against. In my mind the person who attempts to remove spine stress by placing heavy objects on it is just as guilty as the guy who owns the professional tools to accomplish the same thing. It's like you’re telling me that a professional touch up is considered unacceptable but an amateur who uses a black marker is "a-okay".

[Ze-man]

Well I was with you guys on the whole “pressing is restoration” thing until now. I can’t be apart of a movement who seems confused on what they are against. In my mind the person who attempts to remove spine stress by placing heavy objects on it is just as guilty as the guy who owns the professional tools to accomplish the same thing. It's like you’re telling me that a professional touch up is considered unacceptable but an amateur who uses a black marker is "a-okay".

 

Not to go down this well trodden road again. But the example you use is a very appley and orangey. While there is confusion regarding how everyone defines pressing, I think everyone is clear on how they feel about it personally.

Pressing may or not be restoration depending on how you define what it does to the book. Be it stacking books under weights, or using specific tools. Intent is a large part of it to me, but in the end I realize it cannot be detected accurately, so I decided to figure out how I will deal with it instead of trying to figure out how to label it. And as a reuslt I mainly buy RAW books now in VF/NM condition that exhibit the flaws I know pressing could probably remove. And in doing so I am probably buying books that have not been pressed. Maybe.

 

But adding CT, be it through a pro, or a kid with a marker. It is adding something to the book that was not there to start with. And you can easily see it.

 

There is a big difference between he two, imho.

 

Ze-

[ciorac]

Well I was with you guys on the whole “pressing is restoration” thing until now. I can’t be apart of a movement who seems confused on what they are against. In my mind the person who attempts to remove spine stress by placing heavy objects on it is just as guilty as the guy who owns the professional tools to accomplish the same thing. It's like you’re telling me that a professional touch up is considered unacceptable but an amateur who uses a black marker is "a-okay".

 

Not to go down this well trodden road again. But the example you use is a very appley and orangey. While there is confusion regarding how everyone defines pressing, I think everyone is clear on how they feel about it personally.

Pressing may or not be restoration depending on how you define what it does to the book. Be it stacking books under weights, or using specific tools. Intent is a large part of it to me, but in the end I realize it cannot be detected accurately, so I decided to figure out how I will deal with it instead of trying to figure out how to label it. And as a reuslt I mainly buy RAW books now in VF/NM condition that exhibit the flaws I know pressing could probably remove. And in doing so I am probably buying books that have not been pressed. Maybe.

 

But adding CT, be it through a pro, or a kid with a marker. It is adding something to the book that was not there to start with. And you can easily see it.

 

There is a big difference between he two, imho.

 

Ze-

 

I would just like to know how pressing is NOT restoration? Please enlighten me. If by pressing the book you are reverting it nearer to its original condition, is that not restorative? Isn't that what restoration means? Restoring the book to, or as close as you can to, its original condition.

 

I am bewildered by the semantics people debate on what is and isn't restoration.

[infinite_comics-migration]

Well I was with you guys on the whole “pressing is restoration” thing until now. I can’t be apart of a movement who seems confused on what they are against. In my mind the person who attempts to remove spine stress by placing heavy objects on it is just as guilty as the guy who owns the professional tools to accomplish the same thing. It's like you’re telling me that a professional touch up is considered unacceptable but an amateur who uses a black marker is "a-okay".

 

Not to go down this well trodden road again. But the example you use is a very appley and orangey. While there is confusion regarding how everyone defines pressing, I think everyone is clear on how they feel about it personally.

Pressing may or not be restoration depending on how you define what it does to the book. Be it stacking books under weights, or using specific tools. Intent is a large part of it to me, but in the end I realize it cannot be detected accurately, so I decided to figure out how I will deal with it instead of trying to figure out how to label it. And as a reuslt I mainly buy RAW books now in VF/NM condition that exhibit the flaws I know pressing could probably remove. And in doing so I am probably buying books that have not been pressed. Maybe.

 

But adding CT, be it through a pro, or a kid with a marker. It is adding something to the book that was not there to start with. And you can easily see it.

 

There is a big difference between he two, imho.

 

Ze-

 

I would just like to know how pressing is NOT restoration?

 

Because CGC isn't good at detecting it all of the time.

That's all, that's it.