Late Reserves in the Heritage auction?

[The Black Hand ®]

It's usually pretty easy to tell by the bidder numbers - anything under #100 is a floor bidder, and phone bidders usually start with 7xxx.

I was there for the poster auction Tuesday and Wednesday, stuck my head in the door Thursday and talked with Verzyl for a few minutes (had to leave and catch my flight) and saw just a couple of other people there.

Had dinner with Bill Hughes Wednesday night and he wasn't even sure if he was going to go down or not (though I wouldn't be surprised if he ended up being there).

 

Did you pick up any good posters?

[sacentaur]

I noticed last night that Heritage had five hundred Golden Age lots that didn't sell in the auction and are available Buy It Now.

 

This is (somewhat) mitigated by clumping of books (Fawcetts, Gaines ECs, and Westerns), but 500 lots unsold in GA alone?

 

STEVE

[tth2]

I noticed last night that Heritage had five hundred Golden Age lots that didn't sell in the auction and are available Buy It Now.

 

This is (somewhat) mitigated by clumping of books (Fawcetts, Gaines ECs, and Westerns), but 500 lots unsold in GA alone?

 

STEVE

There were some pretty unrealistic reserves.

[sacentaur]

Agreed, especially on those Gaines ECs that keep recycling (could we label Jim H. a "Greedy SOB"?).

 

STEVE

[tth2]

Agreed, especially on those Gaines ECs that keep recycling (could we label Jim H. a "Greedy SOB"?).

 

STEVE

I don't even count the ECs when looking at what didn't sell. They're the equivalent of Heritage's "display" wall.

[bluechip]

I noticed last night that Heritage had five hundred Golden Age lots that didn't sell in the auction and are available Buy It Now.

 

This is (somewhat) mitigated by clumping of books (Fawcetts, Gaines ECs, and Westerns), but 500 lots unsold in GA alone?

 

STEVE

 

 

Although I liked the alphabetical listings, the auction catalogue still was designed to appeal to hardcore collectors of high grade stuff at multiples of guide and there were just too many of them to choose from.

 

There were some nice things for the non-obsessed abd casual collector, things like Action 1 and Batman 1, but those and others like them were hurt in other ways -- the action 1 by being labelled restored (and with no indication what shape it was in before), and if past heritage auctions for that and tec 27 are any indication, that book will change hands again before long. As for the Bat 1, its in great shape, but priced way over guide. And anybody who wants to buy can easily research to find that, despite being a household name and the star of a new movie franchise, Batman books have not moved up in the guide during that time at a rate even remotely approaching inflation. You may be rich enough to buy it but your accountants and advisors will tell you it's a foolish purchase.

 

I know I am repeating what should be obvious here, but when most people buy something above market they do so because they believe the official value is below the actual value, and -- usually -- they know they are increasing the official value, at least somewhat, by making the above market purchase. But while the market has seen many above guide sales for books in recent years, the guide has virtually ignored a very large number of them. Eventually, people start to sxay it's not worth paying 120K for a Batman 1 no matter how nice because regardless of what I pay and regardless of what other people pay the official value is likely to remain virtually unchanged next year and the year after that and for God knows how long.

[ciorac]

I noticed last night that Heritage had five hundred Golden Age lots that didn't sell in the auction and are available Buy It Now.

 

This is (somewhat) mitigated by clumping of books (Fawcetts, Gaines ECs, and Westerns), but 500 lots unsold in GA alone?

 

STEVE

 

 

Although I liked the alphabetical listings, the auction catalogue still was designed to appeal to hardcore collectors of high grade stuff at multiples of guide and there were just too many of them to choose from.

 

There were some nice things for the non-obsessed abd casual collector, things like Action 1 and Batman 1, but those and others like them were hurt in other ways -- the action 1 by being labelled restored (and with no indication what shape it was in before), and if past heritage auctions for that and tec 27 are any indication, that book will change hands again before long. As for the Bat 1, its in great shape, but priced way over guide. And anybody who wants to buy can easily research to find that, despite being a household name and the star of a new movie franchise, Batman books have not moved up in the guide during that time at a rate even remotely approaching inflation. You may be rich enough to buy it but your accountants and advisors will tell you it's a foolish purchase.

 

I know I am repeating what should be obvious here, but when most people buy something above market they do so because they believe the official value is below the actual value, and -- usually -- they know they are increasing the official value, at least somewhat, by making the above market purchase. But while the market has seen many above guide sales for books in recent years, the guide has virtually ignored a very large number of them. Eventually, people start to sxay it's not worth paying 120K for a Batman 1 no matter how nice because regardless of what I pay and regardless of what other people pay the official value is likely to remain virtually unchanged next year and the year after that and for God knows how long.

 

some of the most lucid, topical stuff you have posted to date bluechip. I wholeheartedly agree with you, especially your last paragraph.

 

It doesn't just apply to Batman #1 though, The guide is notoriously high on some things and low on others.

[Aman619]

I liked the post too, but hasnt Batman 1 increased in Guide year after year? I think it has. ASo I agree wiht the main thrust of your post, but am confused why Batman is mentioned in that context? My own angle on this is that 100K+ books that are not Action 1 or Tec 27 are iffy "investments." Fun to own and certainly great books in our hobby, but not sure fire money makers.

 

Years ago at $20K or so, yes. But now at 100K+? as Borat sez: "ehh, naht so mach!" Then again, record prices are meant to be broken, so what do I know!

[bluechip]

I liked the post too, but hasnt Batman 1 increased in Guide year after year? I think it has. ASo I agree wiht the main thrust of your post, but am confused why Batman is mentioned in that context? My own angle on this is that 100K+ books that are not Action 1 or Tec 27 are iffy "investments." Fun to own and certainly great books in our hobby, but not sure fire money makers.

 

Years ago at $20K or so, yes. But now at 100K+? as Borat sez: "ehh, naht so mach!" Then again, record prices are meant to be broken, so what do I know!

 

I would say that (relatively stagnant guide prices aside) in comparison to what I know people pay for other high end collectibles in entertainment, music paraphernalia, movie posters, baseball cards, autos, antiques, books, etc. that action 1 and tec 27 are in a class by themselves and have room to move quite a bit before people would feel they aren't worth it relative to other things.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

So, I'm tracking a number of items in the November Heritage Signature auction, including the two Sub-Mariner # 1s. Last night, after the Reserves post, both of the Subbys show up as "No Reserve" books.

 

This morning, they are still "No Reserve" books (albeit, with some fairly weak bids so far).

 

Less than an hour ago, I check them again, and now they have significant reserve amounts posted.

 

Now, I don't know who owns the books (whether they are Heritage owned or actual consignment books or both), and I can understand not wanting to risk taking a large financial hit, but if you want to place a Reserve on an item, do so from the get-go.

 

Don't change the rules of the game midway because the results aren't favorable to you.

 

And Heritage wonders why they are losing bidders/customers left and right?

 

 

Wow, this thread has had a lot longer life then I thought.

 

As a follow-up, since both Sub-Mariners # 1s have "Make an Offer" tags in the Post-Auction Buys section, I think its a reasonable assumption that they are Heritage (or Jim Halperin) owned books.

 

Just list the books with Reserves to begin with and stop jerking your bidders around, and we conspiracy nuts will happily go back to reading our "alien bigfoot shot JFK" books instead of starting threads like this.

 

Thank you.

[Norrin_Radd]

I finally had a chance to read this thread all the way through.

 

There are three main issues that have been brought up that make Heritage look bad.

 

[*] Allowing employees to bid (giving the appearance that Heritage is shilling)

 

[*] Bumping reserves up

 

[*] Unknowingly or knowingly acting as a marketplace for laundering doctored comics

 

 

Could Heritage do something about these issues? Of course they could. (Especially the first two.)

 

Why haven't they? It's not in their financial interests to do so.

 

Only when these practices start to hurt their bottom line will they be addressed. That may be starting to happen. Maybe not.