Top 10 Golden age

[Bronty]

 

To me Spectre/More Fun #52, 53 hang around the top ten mostly due to inertia.

 

Agreed - other threads have discussed the limitations of the OPG. I would say that they are in the top 10 today because they were at or near the top 10 in 1970 when the first guide came out.

 

I guess it boils down to the fact that people are willing to pay for that book due to its long history as a valuable comic... Certainly I know that as long as I have been collecting its always been viewed as one of THE premier comics; so it's just ingrained in the minds of the collecting community after a while.

 

I do agree with Shield that if you were to sit down and think about the significance of the Spectre character before purchasing one you might well decide to cancel the transaction! And Dr. Fate is an even better example...

 

Still, you can't discount the fact that it is a key issue in the scarcest of the Big Six titles..

[PedigreeMan]

Do you agree with this top 10 list? I'm scratching my head, wondering why Archie #1 or Pep #22 isn't on that list. I realize it's the list of the 10 most valuable, and I agree with maybe 7 of them, but is the first Green Lantern or first Spectre really more important than the first appearance of Archie? Obviously not to me, but I mean in the grand scheme of comic book history..

 

Interesting question, Shield; great topic for discussion.

 

Ignoring the obvious track of "superheroes are what sells, blah blah," let's take a look at just the salient facts with regard to some of the more "questionable" keys and how they relate to Pep #22 and Archie #1:

 

More Fun #52 (February 1940)

Detective #38 (April 1940) [Added for comparison]

Batman #1 (Spring 1940) [Added for comparison]

All American #16 (July 1940)

All-Star #3 (Winter 1940-41) [Added for comparison]

Captain America #1 (March 1941) [Added for comparison]

Pep Comics #22 (December 1941)

Archie #1 (Winter 1942)

 

Since none of us lived through the years of 1938-1941, it's difficult to understand just how much of a "lightning in the bottle" time this was for comic books. Despite the use of the term "Golden Age" to include books through at least the late 1940s, this is really not the case. A number of purists would probably even argue that the last "true" Golden Age book was Captain America #1, and that most everything that followed was simply a pale imitation of the original stuff that had preceded it. In other words, Pep and Archie were just a bit too late.

 

(In fact, you could probably find someone to argue that Pep #22 was the real end of the Golden Age, in that it was the beginning of the whole "teen humor" genre that flourished (along with all the other non-superhero genres) during the late '40s / early '50s. )

 

Also, take a look at the creators of More Fun #52 and All-American #16:

 

More Fun #52:

Jerry Siegel (-script), Bernard Baily (Pencils), Bernard Baily (Inks)

 

All-American #16:

Bill Finger (-script), Martin Nodell (Pencils), Martin Nodell (Inks)

 

The same guys who co-created Superman and Batman, and just 18-24 months earlier! Again, this contributes greatly to the above-mentioned "lightning in a bottle" moniker often attributed to these early days. Therefore, the mentality of a collector of these two books is probably something along the lines of, "They're the next-best thing to owning an Action #1 or Detective #27, so I'll pay the premium!" The same just can't be said for either Pep #22 or Archie #1.

 

Alan

 

 

[Bronty]

Great points!

[lou_fine]

From my point of view, there are a few reasons why books like More Fun #52, All-American #16, and Adventure #40 are worth more than Pep #22 or Archie #1. These would include any one of the following:

 

1) Collectors have been brought up or conditioned on the fact over the last forty odd years that the genre to be in when it comes to comic books is the super-hero genre. The super-heroes have basically taken over the comic book market ever since the start of the Marvel Age.

 

2) The two most prominent companies remaining in the market today are DC and Timely. As a result, collectors continue to seek back issues of their books.

 

3) The super-hero genre is seen as more of an adult genre as compared to the Archies which are seen as more of a teen romance genre. Serious collectors (ie. big money) are willing to spend dollars on the so-called sophisicated books as compared to teen books such as Archie or even kids books such as Harveys.

 

4) The last item I want to mention and which I consider to be very critical is SUPPLY in the marketplace. There is a much larger supply of early DC super-hero books available in the marketplace as compared to the early Archie books.

This is even more true when it comes to the availablity of high grade or pedigree. The only high grade or pedigree copies which I am aware of are the MIle High Pep #22 and Archie #1. There are probably no other high grade early Archies out there in the markeplace. If you check the CGC census, there are probably less than 100 total copies of Golden-age Archies which have been graded as compared to absolute tens of thousands of the GA super-hero books. That is quite a significantly low number for a company which is still publishing books today after 60 odd years. The lack of books is hurting the marketplace and keeping prices down since there is no turnover.

 

Based upon the above points, I believe that the super-hero books such as MF #52, Adventure #40, & All-American #16 will continue to go for substantially more money than either Pep #22 or Archie #1. Needless to say, they have such a big head start as of 2003, that it would be pretty well impossible to overcome.

 

As a personal aside, I have been trying to locate high grade copies of early Archies over the last few years since I feel that they are one of the few areas left which is EXTREMELY UNDERVALUED in the price guide. During all this time, I have only been able to locate one high-grade copy which was a 9.2 copy of Archie's Pals 'n Gals #1. I had to pay double-guide for it at the time and the person which I had to beat out was Geppi. In fact, it is the only CGC book which I have in my entire collection. Although I may have overpay for it at the time, I thought it was worth every penny for an #1 Archie with 120 pages along with a truly classic Archie cover. In addition, it is the lowest price #1 Archie book from the Golden-age which leaves it with a lot of upside potential. This is probably even more true after seeing what the Harvey #1's went for in the Heritage auction a couple of days ago. The long term future for these books also appear to be quite good since they are one of the few books which kids are still reading nowadays.

 

Now if I could only find some high-grade copies of early Archie books.

[Shield]

Lou, that makes a lot of sense. As far as super high grade goes, I have seen a NM- CGC Pep #28 that I didn't want to fork out $2,000 for. I have a NM Pep #44 which I'm going to send to CGC, and my Archie #14 is probably close to VF or even slightly better. You're right; you don't see them because people buy them and hang onto them.

 

As far as the Spectre goes; the general consensus is "Because the same creators of Superman/Batman had a hand in the creation of another superhero just a few months after the fact"...is this the main reason? That seems very simplistic; I know which book I'd go after in high grade if I had the money.

 

Also, I would never say that Captain America #1 was the "end of the golden age"...Timely should've been happy they only had to change Cap's Shield from the first issue to the 2nd; I'd bet if MLJ would've pursued it heavier they could've gotten Timely to change the character altogether. Let's not forget who Captain America was a direct rip-off from....The Shield.

[Shield]

I guess "greatest" comics of all time Pep #22 and/or Archie #1 should be in that list; which doesn't necessarily make it the of the top 10 most valuable.

 

I'm glad I'm not alone in my thinking....check out #9

 

 

http://www.geocities.com/mbrown123/greatest_comics/index.html

 

 

[FlComicFan]

your Pep 22 will have its day in the sun You never see it up for sale which leads me to say its being hoarded till the big guns say its time to bump it up as far as price. Those early DC's and really Golden Age DC period seems to be overpriced. Perhaps because the early price guides had them high and they always seem to increase around the same rate (as Chuck Rozanksi pointed out in a recent CBG column) There is always a lot of Gold DC up for sale both on Ebay and at cons/mail order etc Even the big keys such as Batman 1 , Superman 1 etc come up fairly often and can be found for sale without a lot of trouble. I'd rather have the cool covers from MLJ than their boring counterparts from DC (More Fun Spectres excempt!)

[Zonker]

As far as the Spectre goes; the general consensus is "Because the same creators of Superman/Batman had a hand in the creation of another superhero just a few months after the fact"...is this the main reason? That seems very simplistic; I know which book I'd go after in high grade if I had the money.

 

Here's what I think is the reason: Two of the founding fathers of comics fandom, Jerry Bails and Roy Thomas, were self-avowed All-Star Comics / JSA fanatics. Believe I remember Maggie and/or Don Thompson writing at one point that the mark of a true comics fan in the Mid-West in the 1960s was a complete collection of All-Star Comics. So what did you do if you were an uber-fan after you completed your All-Star run? You went for the early appearances of the JSA members. You found out the early More Funs were danged difficult to get. (1940 publications after all, and first appearances in a title that was already into its 50s in numeration at that point). So when the first Overstreet rolled out in the early 1970s, More Fun 52 was a lot of people's Holy Grail, and as others here have remarked, has maintained its status thanks to the regular x% annual bumps in prices that Overstreet favors.

 

But do sign me up for the committee to trash-talk early More Fun Comics: I'd love to talk the price down so I could afford some!

 

Cheers,

Z.

[Aman619]

good post. The early uber-fans wanted these books and their legacy remains throughout the price guide. Archie #1 is a comer, and especially the ever elusive Pep#22. They will triple in Guide long before the Spectre More Funs double. And #53 will fall first. Its way overpriced since 1970/guide#1 since its part 2 of the origin story. Big Deal!

[Zonker]

They will triple in Guide long before the Spectre More Funs double. And #53 will fall first. Its way overpriced since 1970/guide#1 since its part 2 of the origin story. Big Deal!

 

Agreed. The deal with #53 is it is the first in-costume appearance. But supposedly the Spectre does appear in costume (albeit miscolored) for 1 panel as a teaser at the end of #51.

[ultimatevenom]

 

 

Here is a question

 

If Detective Comics 1 had a NM price instead of only going upto VF, would it get into the Top Ten Golden Age?

 

End of

[supapimp]

 

 

Here is a question

 

If Detective Comics 1 had a NM price instead of only going upto VF, would it get into the Top Ten Golden Age?

 

End of

 

YES, i've always loved that cover, fu man chu and his damn long finger nails, the deep red colour strike.......STUNNING!

[Aman619]

I dont think so. Its a pre-hero, so it will always appeal to a smaller group. I agree its a great book, but not top ten material. Would you really want it instead of any of the other ten listed? Its close, but just falls short IMO.