What is the OA 'Kiss of Death'?

[*paull*]

So are you talking about a recreation done by an artist other than the one who did the original work?

[Mighty Hal]

Almost every recreation cover offered (on the auction site, eBay) at this time is a copy of the original -- and in the style of the original artist -- but not done BY the original artist. And, for me, it lacks real value.

[*paull*]

OK, now I finally understand.

 

That artwork holds no interest for me. I think that most people here on the Boards would use the term "recreation" to describe a piece done by the original artist.

[AvengersFan]

John and Sal Buscema have done a bunch of recreations of Avengers covers from the 1960's and they are great. The originals may exist in many cases but are 5k and up. These recreations are by the original artists, great to look at, and have significant value during "resale". I have bid on several, and haven't won one yet, due to people wanting them even more than myself.

[SignatureSelect]

Unless of course we are trying to say Joe Simon intentionally created a fake piece to attempt to pass it off as the original, which is not what I read and not what I understand from the explanation Stephen included.

 

 

 

Bingo. Joe Simon wanted people to think he created Cap America. That is why he created the 1941 concept drawing in 1969.

 

As for the "unpublished" Cap #6 cover, don't know why that one was created.

 

S

 

I am sure you have solid information stating these are recreation. I was unaware of this. Could you post your sources for this information possibly a scan of an article if you have it available.

 

There was a Phil Seuling show in 1969 or 1970 that Joe Simon did the cover for. Art was drawn and given to Seuling 1 month before the show. In the months following the show, Simon claimed that the drawing was the original concept piece for Cap America drawn in 1941. Seuling told me that he was aware of the claims Simon was making but kept his mouth shut.

 

And some guy named Jack Kirby once told me that the "1941" Simon Cap concept art was not from 1941. I think he may have worked for Marvel.

 

S

 

Thank you for stating your information. So was Joe Simon even involved in the creation process of Cap?

[SignatureSelect]

Are these worthless?

 

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=38003&GSub=5137

 

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=169574&GSub=26121

 

http://www.virtualcomicartcon.com/0346.jpg

 

http://www.comicartfans.com/GalleryPiece.asp?Piece=38624&GSub=5028

 

 

All Four of those pieces are beautiful. If they are worthless I will pay a small amout and take them off your hands.

 

For some reason I think they are more than I can afford

[SignatureSelect]

It doesn't anger me in the slightest bit, but I think you're missing the point. The GA original work simply doesn't exist. There's no point in calling it a 'clone', because that recreation is all that exists at this point.

 

If Cole and Schomburg didn't recreate their famous covers, there would be almost nothing in existance by them. They are two of the greatest artists ever to touch the comic medium. Without the recreations, we'd have nothing by them. And I can verify that Cole's recreations are even better than the original work.

 

If you are talking about X-artist recreating the work of Y-artist, and the original work is in existance also, then I agree with you.... what's the point?

 

Some golden age does exist it is just not as plentiful as silver or modern OA. I Own a piece of Golden age OA.

 

It is a nice Gill Fox War piece and it was cheap. When I say cheap I really mean cheap.

 

AS far as LB Cole, Schomburg, CC Beck, and all the other greats. Some of that still exist.

 

Just not as much as everybody would like.

[*paull*]

Very little L.B. Cole work is in existance. Other than his Classics Illustrated work (of which covers and interior work exists), I have yet to see anything from his Star line in existance. I spoke to Jay Disbrow about that work and what happened to it, and he believes that there may have been a flood that wiped it out.

 

I've seen Schomburg Harvey original work, but I don't recall ever seeing any original Timely pieces. Do they exist?

[Mister Trent]

I've seen Schomburg Harvey original work, but I don't recall ever seeing any original Timely pieces. Do they exist?

 

Here ya go, Paull . . .

 

[*paull*]

Wow, that's awesome. There can't be many of those in existance, correct? I've seen far more sci-fi paperback paintings than I have original comic work by Schomburg.

[SignatureSelect]

Honestly I would take any schomburg. What would be the least I could expect for a schomburg original. Even some nice prelim work.

[Mister Trent]

Wow, that's awesome. There can't be many of those in existance, correct? I've seen far more sci-fi paperback paintings than I have original comic work by Schomburg.

 

As far as I'm aware, this is the only Schomburg Timely cover known to exist. The logo area is probably a replacement stat, incidentally.

[*paull*]

Schomburg art is quite pricey. There's a sci-fi work of his on Comicartfans listed for $3500 and a recreation for $6500. I would be that a decent pencil would cross the $1000-2000 mark easy.

[blowout]

Almost every recreation cover offered (on the auction site, eBay) at this time is a copy of the original -- and in the style of the original artist -- but not done BY the original artist. And, for me, it lacks real value.

 

If that was your point then I agree entirely.

 

My point was in reference to a recreation done by the original artist. By definition, it is only a recreation if done by the artist who did the original. If the piece is done by another artist it is simply a copy.

[vodou]

By definition, it is only a recreation if done by the artist who did the original. If the piece is done by another artist it is simply a copy.

 

Looking to the "fine" art world, maybe anything contemporary to the original artist but not by him/her would be "school of" or "after" (commonly used).

 

Here's the problem you get into with a black-and-white view on the subject - some very good artists are turning out hard to ignore stuff that didn't start with them. Think Steve Rude, Hembeck, Mannion. All have done the occasional or even regular full-on recreations or at least heavy nods in the direction of another's work. Then there's Bruce Timm with a very Kirby-influenced style that when applied to a classic Tales of Suspense cover in color was beautiful yet an absolute recreation with only slight "reinterpretation." Blindly looking past all this stuff would mean missing out on some cool art.

 

Let's not forget that there's a lot of original cover art out there (interiors too) that started life as layouts to be rendered/completed by another artist. John Romita, Marie Severin and Dave Cockrum all served as Marvel "house" prelim cover artists with other artists actually turning out the finished/published art. Who's the original artist here?

 

I judge each piece as I see it. Mickey Demeo's recreations do nothing for me, same for those Sotheby's recreations by Romita and Kirby from the early 90s. Rude, Hembeck and others work. Have no problem with many of Murphy Anderson and CC Beck recreations of GA covers they never originally worked on.