Are these books really that Mis-Cut?

[Bonds25]

 

You think JoeHawk is Hammer? Come on now Supa (and Drbanner).

[supapimp]

[drbanner]

Hmmm...the detailed, in-depth discussion on this thread of the Eastern File copies, the history of the production process, and CGC's handling/labelling of these copies all sounded verrry familiar???

[JoeHawk-migration]

As an aside, ever notice that there are no Golden Age Disneys or Funny Animal stuff in the Mile High books -- ? Chuck told me personally many years ago that Edgar's wife had trashed all of them

 

I thought the deal was that the collector that helped Chuckie come up with the $$ for the deal got to pick up some of the books, and he picked the Four Colors? In any event, thanks for the explanation hammer...

 

Wasn't there quite a big fiasco several years back about an unscrupulous dealer selling "Eastern File Copies" like these as original, unrestored books? Didn't they get a bad rep for this? I only recall this b/c Michael Naiman had a small piece in a recent CBM market report about this character showing up on ebay selling the same type of stuff - apparently super high-grade books with undisclosed restoration.

 

You're more than welcome, Araich! This is the one Forum online where rumors should submerge and facts should surface. Nobody knows everything about the history of our collecting field, but together we can certainly ferret it out.

 

DrBanner, I missed that article, but from personal experience I have seen newsstand-fresh covers on tan Golden Age interiors that obviously were married together. That to me is a rip-off if not disclosed.

 

Since you've asked about Chuck's experience on the Mile High buy in 1977. The story from a reliable source is that Chuck almost lost the entire deal -- first Mrs. Church wouldn't give a price, and then when she did, Chuck didn't have the needed money and a couple months went by (in which time she could have trashed them!) before he contacted a fellow in Texas (name withheld) who agreed to put up the cash, provided he could go along and have his choice of the books, which Chuck offered at 1/2 Overstreet Guide Value. From the same source: On the way back to Denver with the 24,000+ books in a U-Haul truck, the Texas investor offered Chuck a substantial hunk of money for all of the books, which raised to over $100,000.00 as Chuck continually refused. Then he offered a large buy-in for a full partnership, which Chuck refused, so the story goes. Chuck only let him pick out his agreed-upon-books at 1/2 Guide, but the investor did buy some further books I understand at Guide and above price. This info should be checked out with Mr. Rozansky for factual content, as it is (although I feel reliable) second-person hearsay.

 

Here's the part that is not hearsay that Chuck told me personally: Ed Church worked on a local CO newspaper as an advertising illustrator. His art ranged from mediocre to gifted (I saw some of it), but Mrs. Church never appreciated his line of work, or his love of comics and lurid pulp covers. By the time Chuck saw the "stash" in a room off one end of the basement, generally two copies of each comic, one read (VF at least) and one NM, unread -- Golden Age and Silver Age Superhero and Horror -- Mrs. Church had already been busy portioning out poor (roll-over in his grave!) Edgar's comic books and art collection for the trash truck in the back alley for several weeks.

 

Chuck saw another similar room (empty) at the other end of the basement with a few Disney comic covers and bits and pieces still on the floor. He told me he figured that that room had probably been filled (segregated) with thousands of Dells (Disneys) and other funny comics -- which shamefully are now lost to FANDOM. Edgar Church was a "completist comic collector" obviously.

 

On one trip there, Chuck found piles of Edgar's art and pulps, books, etc. (I forget which trip he said--as he told me he'd made a half dozen) haphazardly stacked in boxes in the alley. he wanted all of it of course, but he only had room in his vehicle for a small portion of it. The art he salvaged that day is only a small part of what Edgar had produced in his lifetime. When Chuck next went back to get more the trashmen had already claimed it.

QUESTION: Were 1977 Colorado "sanitation engineers" STUPID --- ? It would seem so, if they took thousands of pristine comics and art pieces to the dump for burying or burning -- instead of home to their kids. I think most of America knew even by 1977 that comic books were "worth something!" Alas, it's all lost to FANDOM!

 

POINT TO BE MADE: Over the years I've heard people express that Mrs. Church was "hoodwinked" by Mr. Rozansky. This is not the case, as he did go back of his own free will later and give her more money (amount undisclosed) and had it not been for his intervention she would have trashed the greatest find (at least in my mind) of high grade vintage comic books in FANDOM History! Thanks to Chuck Rozansky, Edgar Church will always be remembered (and with a certain degree of veneration) for the legacy he left us (we who love comic books) -- it doesn't matter WHO owns them now -- just that they survived! I feel wonderful when I see them on display at the Cons or for sale on EBay. They belong to all of us--all comics do.

 

I'd better stop as my hanky's getting wet --

 

 

Did you know that Chuck also found stacks and stacks of mint condition pulp covers, carefully removed from their glued spines (the pulps were discarded). Those covers are now "married" to pulps in some of the finest collections known right now! Only, don't look for "married cover" status -- as no pulp collector really cares! Put a MINT Spider #1 pulp cover up on EBAY and see if it doesn't bring multiples of Tim Cottrill's Pulp Guide prices! In pulps--the covers are 9/10ths of the value. It used to be that way in comics. Oh, the stories I could tell!

 

Still on "Married Cover" subject -- Here's another story for you: Bill Blackbeard (Comic Museum - San Francisco) whose undying efforts gave us most of the reprint Newspaper Strip books we have nowadays of the early Sunday Pages -- removed all of the pulp covers in his collection of hundreds for zeroxing in 1992 or so (I saw this personally while there!) and photocopied each pulp interior so that he could retain a facsimile of the originals -- and then glued the covers back on (without apparent damage). Why? he needed money to keep the museum going, and he was offered $100.00 apiece or more for the pulps (mostly Hero pulps like Spider, Shadow, Doc Savage) from (I ain't saying who!) a very well-known writer/collector who today still has one of the FINEST collection of pulps known! The copying cost Bill less than $10.00 per pulp, so it was financially feasable.

 

By present-day comic collector standards, those Blackbeard pulps with replaced covers and the pristine Church pulp covers re-glued to matching interiors have depreciated in value greatly--but not so to the most avid pulp collector--who couldn't give two diddly-squats as to where the cover came from -- if it looks good and matches the interior. All pulp collectors really dislike is "trimmed" covers. The more unsightly salvage/overhang on the cover--the higher the price it will bring!

 

That's the way it used to be in Comic Fandom, readers -- nobody cared about "repairs" or "replaced covers" -- but then as the man used to say on television when I was a kid -- "Time Marches On!"

 

Nothing wrong with the precise grading standards of today's young generation of collectors, just think kindly of the old farts who helped to start Fandom with nothing more than a zeal and a zest for old comics -- regardless of the condition!Even if they did not make FANDOM what it is today, they did save our comics from a thousand Mrs. Churches and a whole fleet of STUPID! @#!&%% Trash Men.

 

Hope you enjoy this post as much as I've enjoyed writing it. Until next time--don't take any Superman #1 comics with Howard Rogofsky black & white zeroxed covers (described in his 1972 Stan's Weekly Express adv. as "FINE"). Sheesh!

[Kevin76]

Welcome back Hammer...says the CGC forums

[aardvark88]

In any event, thanks for the explanation hammer...

 

Wasn't there quite a big fiasco several years back about an unscrupulous dealer selling "Eastern File Copies" like these as original, unrestored books? Didn't they get a bad rep for this? I only recall this b/c Michael Naiman had a small piece in a recent CBM market report about this character showing up on ebay selling the same type of stuff - apparently super high-grade books with undisclosed restoration.

 

I have a copy of the Fantazia (Danny Dupchak) ad in CBG that was selling hi-grade silver DCs & Eastern file copies from about 8 yrs ago. Too lazy to scan it now.

[Bonds25]

Dorks, he's not Hammer.

[sfilosa]

My guess is that he is the person selling the books that might (or might not) get the married cover qualified graded from CGC.

 

I

[Bonds25]

Your guess would be correct.

[Aman619]

yer both wrong. Hes clearly Chuckie himself! When was the last time anyone her called Chuck a hero?

[nochips]

I have a story to tell.

 

In the late 1990s I lived in St. Louis and had on many occasions visited Sparta, IL. It's in the middle of nowhere.

 

Through a series of events I met the retired head of production for World Color, he was there 25+ years. I bought his collection of books. They are almost all gone and about 50% were VF+ unread file copies.

 

They were handed books every day as they left the plant. If you wanted to take some home they were free.

 

He showed me production records of print runs from 1960 to the mid 1980s when he left. Most books had 300,000 issues printed, even the low sellers. It's cheaper to run that much because the cost comes down in volume. The worst books had big print runs just like the top sellers.

 

I also bought some unused covers. They are printed on large rolls of paper, usually 9 or 12 covers at a time, I have one left somwhere.They then get cut and assembled.

 

They did print Marvel books in Sparta. He had very few in his collection, I asked why, and he told me they lost the Marvel contract in the late 1950s or early 60s?

 

The whole book was printed in Sparta, covers and insides.

 

I have a box of the oversized treasury books that DC put out.I also have some books that have printers notes on the inside splash page. It lists the date the book was run and on what press#. Kinda neat actually.

 

When they closed the plant they threw away tens of thousands of books, covers, printing plates, you name it. Makes you wondering what they tossed out.

[fantastic_four]

He showed me production records of print runs from 1960 to the mid 1980s when he left. Most books had 300,000 issues printed, even the low sellers. It's cheaper to run that much because the cost comes down in volume. The worst books had big print runs just like the top sellers.

 

Can you still get your hands on these? A large number of people would love to see these numbers for the time periods prior to when the publishers started putting yearly averages in books. I think they started around 1966 or so, so if that guy has production figures from before that time period, it would be of great interest to us all.

 

If you could tell me how to contact the guy, I'd be willing to do it myself.