HULK #181 - How High???

[KEY ISSUES Comics]

Hi,

 

I'm looking to buy a collection, which includes the following copy of HULK #181, which is by far the most valuable book in the collection and greatly affects the asking price/offer. The seller and I are far off in terms of grading.

 

I give it an 8.5 or 9.0 max, and he thinks it is a NM+++, which means 9.6 or higher. For the record, the seller knows nothing about comics and freely admits it, but sees the prices CGC copies go for and it is obviously afraid of being had.

 

There is some spine stressing, but there are two other defects of note: (1) vertical color scrape through the Hulk logo box, (2) dust/sun/oxidation shadow at the bottom of the back cover.

 

The latter is what makes it hard for me personally to properly grade it. I've seen color scrapes on 9.0 copies, but how does this shadow affect it, and does it depend upon the type of shadow?

I do not know how to distinguish a dust from a sun from an oxidation shadow. Sun shadows from what I can tell are the most serious and lower the grade the most.

 

How would you guys grade it, based upon the photos?

 

Thanks!

 

 

[KEY ISSUES Comics]

Ughhh.... Can anyone resize it? You cannot see the color scrape at this magnification.

 

I took it from the guy's website, and the photo resolution is high enough to be viewed clearly at about 3X.

 

Sorry.

[joeypost]

Need better scans but from what I can see the issues all seem to be with the BC.

 

The defect you are calling scraping is vertical speckling. Where the ink did not take properly to the book especially near the spine. I have a 9.2 copy with vertical speckling and have seen it in copies graded higher. I am pretty sure CGC see's this as a printing defect and does not ding the book too badly because of it.

 

If there are a few minor creases on the spine, the dust shadow on BC and it looks like some blunting to the bottom of the spine I would say 8.5 to 9.0 is about right.

[KEY ISSUES Comics]

Need better scans but from what I can see the issues all seem to be with the BC.

 

The defect you are calling scraping is vertical speckling. Where the ink did not take properly to the book especially near the spine. I have a 9.2 copy with vertical speckling and have seen it in copies graded higher. I am pretty sure CGC see's this as a printing defect and does not ding the book too badly because of it.

 

If there are a few minor creases on the spine, the dust shadow on BC and it looks like some blunting to the bottom of the spine I would say 8.5 to 9.0 is about right.

Thanks for the input!

 

RE: THE VERTICAL SPECKLING

Look closely at the Hulk in the blue circle - there is a very fine vertical white line, which is what I am pointing out as a color scrape. Can you see it? It's most visible through his purple pants.

 

Cheers!

[Point Five]

Don't know if this is too obvious, but if you think it's 8.5/9.0 and the seller is convinced it's a 9.6+, I'd have him send it to CGC to make the call (or failing that, just walk away). The difference in price is so vast that without bringing your grades onto the same page, I'm pessimistic that you'll be able to come to an agreement that will satisfy both of you.

 

The scans are too small to finetune the grade, but safe to say I'd be more in your camp (8.5/9.0) than his.

[KEY ISSUES Comics]

Don't know if this is too obvious, but if you think it's 8.5/9.0 and the seller is convinced it's a 9.6+, I'd have him send it to CGC to make the call (or failing that, just walk away). The difference in price is so vast that without bringing your grades onto the same page, I'm pessimistic that you'll be able to come to an agreement that will satisfy both of you.

 

The scans are too small to finetune the grade, but safe to say I'd be more in your camp (8.5/9.0) than his.

Actually, he wants to send in about 40 or so of his so-called NM+++ books, several of which are $4.00 OSG books (ie) New Mutants, X-Men Special Edition, New Teen Titans, Captain Carrot, tc.. . At least some are Byrne/Claremont Uncanny X-Men, but they are 8.5-9.2 in my opinion, and simply aren't worth the investment if you are looking to sell quickly at a higher price.

 

I've tried telling him to send the HULK #181, and the HULK #181 alone, to CGC beause it is worth it regardless of whether it is 8.5 or 9.6. I'm worried he'll send in those other books @$15/16USD per pop + insurance and s&h only to get a pile of 8.5-9.2s back on modern books, and find out they're worth less than the cost of encapsulation. If that happens, he'll want even more money for the lot to cover his "investment", which ain't going to happen.

 

Getting the HULK #181 slabbed provides a gauge by which he can determine the grades of the other books without the risk of wasting money on useless certifications.

 

Man, CGC (and Ebay) has made it difficult to negotiate collections, with a few expensive books in them, with folks who are clueless and only see what they want - CGC 9.6 and higher prices on Ebay.

[VintageComics]

If the scrape breaks colour it could greatly affect the grade. The book could be a 7.0 or a 9.0. I'd say better pics are needed. You can host the originals at a site like photobucket.com

That may help.

R.

[KEY ISSUES Comics]

If the scrape breaks colour it could greatly affect the grade. The book could be a 7.0 or a 9.0. I'd say better pics are needed. You can host the originals at a site like photobucket.com

That may help.

R.

The photo provided is linked directly to Photobucket. I dragged it from his website to my desktop then uploaded it to Photobucket. The photo is VERY LARGE, but it displays small here.

 

RE: SCRAPE

It does break color, but the OS GRADING BOOK shows a 9.0 book with a larger, more evident, scrape on the front cover of 9.0 book. Does CGC's grading differ significantly from Mr. Overstreet?

[joeypost]

Need better scans but from what I can see the issues all seem to be with the BC.

 

The defect you are calling scraping is vertical speckling. Where the ink did not take properly to the book especially near the spine. I have a 9.2 copy with vertical speckling and have seen it in copies graded higher. I am pretty sure CGC see's this as a printing defect and does not ding the book too badly because of it.

 

If there are a few minor creases on the spine, the dust shadow on BC and it looks like some blunting to the bottom of the spine I would say 8.5 to 9.0 is about right.

Thanks for the input!

 

RE: THE VERTICAL SPECKLING

Look closely at the Hulk in the blue circle - there is a very fine vertical white line, which is what I am pointing out as a color scrape. Can you see it? It's most visible through his purple pants.

 

Cheers!

 

Only after adjusting the brightness of the image could I see what you are talking about. Thats different than what I was mentioning. If thats a scrape (looks lik one to me) now way you are in the NM area. VF+ with the spine dings if thats all thats wrong with the book.

[ft88]

Have him post a couple of books on ebay with whatever grades he wants and he'll see what a pain in the butt it is. The only bad part is it might motivate him to say "Aaaah, I think I'll just keep 'em for the kids"

 

I've heard that a couple times.

[Point Five]

Brad just sent me the scans & I've put them on my office server...here they are unresized.

 

While it's a nice book overall, check out the back cover & the spine. I don't think it will make 9.0, let alone 9.6....

 

 

[KEY ISSUES Comics]

Have him post a couple of books on ebay with whatever grades he wants and he'll see what a pain in the butt it is. The only bad part is it might motivate him to say "Aaaah, I think I'll just keep 'em for the kids"

 

I've heard that a couple times.

Yeah, I've heard all kinds of things like that. They think they can pressure us into succumbing to their outrageous dreams. By "us" I mean everyone who is a fan and in the know.

 

The problem with this guy, assuming he's not lying (see my post about lying in this hobby), is that he lent his brother x$$$ 15 years ago and took the comics as collateral. Now, he wants his money back, but his brother says "No, you bought them." So, he simply wants what he "paid" for them back - fair enough. But, it seems to me he was ripped off 15 years ago if he paid as much as they are reasonable worth now!!!!! Hulk #181 was worth a fraction of what it is worth today, so his brother ripped him off...

 

IMHO at this point he should take what he can get (we were only several hundred dollars apart for the collection, but I feel I offered too much as it is), considereing the $$$ I've offered will do better sitting in his back account accumulating interest instead of the comics sitting in his basement.

[KEY ISSUES Comics]

Brad just sent me the scans & I've put them on my office server...here they are unresized.

 

While it's a nice book overall, check out the back cover & the spine. I don't think it will make 9.0, let alone 9.6....

Thanks for posting the photos, but now I have to kill you because you used my real name.

 

Yeah, I'm now thinking 8.0-8.5 after comparing it to an UNCANNY X-MEN #109 CGC 9.0 I have next to me. The spine is niver on the #109, and the back cover is much whiter/cleaner. But, it does have some bindery chipping and some edge stress, but overall it looks better than the #181.

[Point Five]

No problem.

 

...and your name is in your profile...

[KEY ISSUES Comics]

No problem.

 

...and your name is in your profile...

Yeah, I know. Full disclosure!

[Point Five]

So anyhow, yep...the spine tics, the slight crease/rumple LLC back cover, and what looks like a small spot at the top of the back cover would hold this to an 8.5 tops, IMO...and I wouldn't be shocked if it CGC'd at an 8.0. Pretty sure the scuffs on the small Hulk are the common printing defect on #181, tho.

[KEY ISSUES Comics]

Pretty sure the scuffs on the small Hulk are the common printing defect on #181, tho.

Yeah, you're not the first to tell me that. Man, I am impressed by the knowledge of forumites! I've been reading comics for 20 years or so, but only recently started getting into the collecting/selling/grading aspect of it 4 or 5 years ago. Never could be bothered with all of the details and specifics until now.

 

So, how much should I pay for this book raw assuming it's an 8.0?

 

OS Guide puts it at $700.00USD.

 

I couldn't find any closed auctions on Ebay for a CGC 8.0 copy, but CGC 7.5 go for less than guide...

[Point Five]

Yeah, the knowledge here is amazing. (I've gotten up to speed on a lot of trivia like this!)

 

I'll defer to others on fair market value for this book (and I'd be curious as well). But in all honesty, with a key like this I'd lean towards buying a slabbed copy, and would expect to pay less for a raw one. Too risky that it would fall on the wrong side of VF or have some other tiny thing wrong with it, and easy enough to find slabbed in the grade of your choice.

[ft88]

Honestly, your best negotiating tactic at this point is to walk away and let him make the next move. You be amazed at how little 25-35 cent marvels get at F/VF or less.

[Mr. Zipper]

I think CGC might really ding a BA book for a dust shadow. Plus, there appears to be a small stain on the upper edge of the back cover and there is some slight corner rounding.

 

Despite the nice centering and colors, I think 8.0 max.

 

A nice book nonetheless. Raw FMV from a well-known a respected dealer would be around $600. As an unknown ebay seller one might get $450 for it.

 

BTW, make sure that the Marvel Value Stamp hasn't been cut out. If it has, the value is in the basement.