Anti-Nostalgia

[CW]

Ditko sucks, Romita Sucks, Krypton Sucks!

 

But seriously. Snappahead is right. It is just an opinion. You can't go off on a guy for disagreeing with you. If everybody went off on people with opposite opinions, I would have been beaten up by an army of Lefield fans by now. Everybody play nice This is supposed to be a fun environment for discourse and disagrrement

 

Don't look that last word up in the dictionary you won't find it.

[Mister Trent]

Maybe it's because I missed the 60's but, I can't figure out how anyone could prefer Ditko over Romita. Ditko was good at certain things, but I never thought he was right for Spidey..sue me..

 

Well . . . here's one of your early posts where you not just state your preference for Romita over Ditko . . . but you also go on to be dismissive of those of us who hold Ditko's co-creation (Spidey) in the highest of esteem.

 

Your comments question "how anyone could prefer Ditko over Romita", which helped prompt me to provide some personal insights as to why people do . . .

 

Perhaps you've got a short memory? But if you want to promote discussion, why get p*ssed at me for taking time to answer your remarks in depth?

 

No, I'm not mad at ya . . . and, no, I couldn't give a sh*t if you prefer one artist over another.

[Mister Trent]

Ditko didn't just draw Spidey . . . he co-created the book.

 

Look at all the enduring Spidey villains . . . Green Goblin, Doc Ock, Sandman, Electro, Kraven, etc, etc, . . . all of them Ditko co-creations.

 

Same goes for the cast of characters.

 

As much as the super-hero exploits of Spidey are thrilling, Peter Parker's private life is often as entertaining (if not, more so) than that of his alter-ego . . .

 

Romita Snr was a good artist, but he didn't really come up with much to compare against Ditko when he took over.

 

Aside from the Kingpin, I can't say I can recall too many popular villains that followed on from Ditko's tenure . . .

 

And this was my response to your 'dig' at Ditko ASM fans . . .

[Mister Trent]

Mister Trent, what your'e saying is that it wasn't Ditko's art, but WHEN he worked on the book. If Romita had started with Amazing Fantasy 15, then Romita would be the unchallenged Spidey champ? . . . Romita rapes Ditko IMO.

 

And the above is where you tried to put words into my mouth . . .

[snappahead]

Wait, wait, wait....CW..you don't like Lefield?! You *spoon*! I agree with you though. I was TRYING to have fun.

 

Trent, for someone who doesn't give a sh*t..you sure seem to give a sh*t. Since you won't just let the thing go,like I've tried to do a couple of times now..I'll walk away from this topic.

[Mister Trent]

Mister Trent, what your'e saying is that it wasn't Ditko's art, but WHEN he worked on the book. If Romita had started with Amazing Fantasy 15, then Romita would be the unchallenged Spidey champ? Keep in mind that Stan had something to do with the creation of these characters too..it wasn't all Ditko or Romita. From a purely artistic standpoint, Romita rapes Ditko IMO.

 

No, you're trying to put words into my mouth. I'm actually a big fan of Ditko's art.

 

What I'm saying is that Ditko CO-CREATED (with Lee) Spidey's formative years.

 

If Romita had been on the book from it's first appearance (via AF # 15), I very much doubt that we would have the enduring villains and characters we have. IMHO, Ditko played a big part in the really enduring side of ASM.

 

Like I said, other than the Kingpin, how many enduring villains are there from Romita's Tenure?

 

Romita rapes Ditko, you say?

 

No way. You're talking out your backside.

 

Which generated the above response from me . . .

[Mister Trent]

Trent, for someone who doesn't give a sh*t..you sure seem to give a sh*t. Since you won't just let the thing go,like I've tried to do a couple of times now..I'll walk away from this topic.

 

No, I said I couldn't give a sh*t about your preference in choice of artist.

 

What I do give a sh*t about is your casual dismissal of those of us who hold Ditko's co-creation in the highest of esteem.

 

There is a difference . . .

 

You "could't figure out how anyone could prefer Ditko over Romita", so I took the time and trouble to explain why.

[CW]

Wait, wait, wait....CW..you don't like Lefield?! You *spoon*! I agree with you though. I was TRYING to have fun.

 

I know, I'm a horrible human being.

[CW]

Mr Trent,

If it means anything to you, I know Snappahead and I am sure he didn't mean to come off like that. I think he was just getting in to the conversation. I doubt any offense was intended. Also I think Ditko was a lot of fun to read/view. He was/is a very important part of comic history and will forever be in the unwritten hall of fame for comic artists. As will Romita. Even if we don't like the work of an artist of their caliber/history, I can see your point that we should still afford them the respect they have earned. Hopefully we can all move on as I enjoy both yourself and snappahead as participants of these boards and I hate to see you guys get in to it over this.

-Chris

[Mister Trent]

Mr Trent,

If it means anything to you, I know Snappahead and I am sure he didn't mean to come off like that. I think he was just getting in to the conversation. I doubt any offense was intended. Also I think Ditko was a lot of fun to read/view. He was/is a very important part of comic history and will forever be in the unwritten hall of fame for comic artists. As will Romita. Even if we don't like the work of an artist of their caliber/history, I can see your point that we should still afford them the respect they have earned. Hopefully we can all move on as I enjoy both yourself and snappahead as participants of these boards and I hate to see you guys get in to it over this.

-Chris

 

That's easy for a god-damned Cyberman to say.

 

For what it's worth, I always preferred the Daleks anyway

[Mister Trent]

Mr Trent,

If it means anything to you, I know Snappahead and I am sure he didn't mean to come off like that. I think he was just getting in to the conversation. I doubt any offense was intended. Also I think Ditko was a lot of fun to read/view. He was/is a very important part of comic history and will forever be in the unwritten hall of fame for comic artists. As will Romita. Even if we don't like the work of an artist of their caliber/history, I can see your point that we should still afford them the respect they have earned. Hopefully we can all move on as I enjoy both yourself and snappahead as participants of these boards and I hate to see you guys get in to it over this.

-Chris

 

That's easy for a god-damned Cyberman to say.

 

For what it's worth, I alway preferred the Daleks anyway

 

And that's no disrespect to Cybermen, incidentally . . . they played an important part in DR WHO's development . . .

 

Deja Vu, anyone?

[CW]

Touche'

[CW]

And with that the American has to go to sleep. All this talk of Ditko and Daleks is gonna give me nightmares!

[snappahead]

Your'e mad about my "casual dismisal" of your esteem toward Ditko...but you don't give a sh*t about my esteem for Romita....Gotcha. I don't think I've ever dismissed your affections for Ditko BTW. I've even tried to agree with you and back you up on his importance. You don't seem to want to hear that though.

 

Hey CW..I didn't even realize it was you... I checked your gallery and said, "hey, that's Chris" How's it goin?

[CW]

Well I tried.

 

I'm doing fine. Is all this conflict affecting my commish If I find hidden profanity in the background I'll know (A la that 70's Kazar cover with the F bomb spelled out on the cover in the grass)

[CW]

Ah well I'll leave you guys to it then. I'm off to sell something. PM me when it's over.

[Mister Trent]

Your'e mad about my "casual dismisal" of your esteem toward Ditko...but you don't give a sh*t about my esteem for Romita....Gotcha. I don't think I've ever dismissed your affections for Ditko BTW. I've even tried to agree with you and back you up on his importance. You don't seem to want to hear that though.

 

There you go putting words into my mouth, again.

 

Say, you're not Homer Simpson are you . . . you guys certainly got a lot in common.

 

For what it's worth, I happen to like Romita's work a lot.

 

What I don't give a sh*t about, are your own personal preferences.

 

You prefer Romita over Ditko. Fine, I can live with that. It's when you start dissing Ditko's art/pivotal role in the co-creation and development of Spidey . . . that I do give a sh*t about.

 

How many times do I have to spell all this out to you? Are you totally dumb, Homer??

 

Anyway, I thought you was walking away???

 

[Dick Pontoon]

Quoting Jeffro and Mister Trent:

 

Not that I'm disagreeing with you but is there documentation anywhere that states that Ditko helped Stan Lee create characters for ASM? yes, I know he co-created Spiderman but that doesn't mean he co-created every Spiderman villian up until he left the book. I'm curious if such proof exists.

 

From what I understand, Ditko would go away, plot the issues, draw them and come back with the pages for Lee to write dialogue for the letterer . . .

 

Yup, Stan Lee has even said this on I believe more than one occasion but I cannot recall where. According to Stan, they reached a point where they weren't even going over plot outlines, a-la "Marvel Method," and he had no idea what the next issue would contain until Ditko's pages arrived.

[Mister Trent]

Quoting Jeffro and Mister Trent:

 

Not that I'm disagreeing with you but is there documentation anywhere that states that Ditko helped Stan Lee create characters for ASM? yes, I know he co-created Spiderman but that doesn't mean he co-created every Spiderman villian up until he left the book. I'm curious if such proof exists.

 

From what I understand, Ditko would go away, plot the issues, draw them and come back with the pages for Lee to write dialogue for the letterer . . .

 

Yup, Stan Lee has even said this on I believe more than one occasion but I cannot recall where. According to Stan, they reached a point where they weren't even going over plot outlines, a-la "Marvel Method," and he had no idea what the next issue would contain until Ditko's pages arrived.

 

That's right, two years into the book Ditko was driving the train - with Stan Lee along for the ride.

 

Interestingly, in ALTER EGO # 68 (May, 2007), they've managed to unearth Ditko's notes that accompanied his pencils for the 10-page DR STRANGE story from STRANGE TALES # 143. Here are some extracts from the two-page ALTER EGO feature:

 

"For decades, people have asked Stan Lee the precise method by which he worked with Steve Ditko, especially after the artist took over most of the plotting of THE AMAZING SPIDER-MAN and DR STRANGE in the mid-1960s - and Stan (surprise, surprise) didn't remember . . . It's now certain that, unlike other Marvel artists at the time, Ditko often turned in sheets of typing paper which were divided into panels to match the penciled original art. On the former, he had handwritten the pacing of the story, panel by panel. Since Steve (who was then inking everything he drew for Marvel) delivered very rough pencils, such notes were necessary to make certain Stan could follow the story."

[Artemaria]

Do you think that the lack of recognition of Ditko's contribution at the time caused him to leave Marvel after creating one of the, if not the, most popular character(s) of all time (Spidey) and one of the most enduring, albeit underused (Dr. Strange)?

 

I'd read that Ditko said in an interview that "no one" will ever know why he left Marvel.

 

But I've seen lots of speculation, some of which relates to the above. And some of which relates to his desire to make comics even more socially aware and serious, and Stan's purported lack of interest to pursue those types of story lines when Steve wanted to do so.