• When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

CGC and Overstreet Grading

Started by HooDeeDoo,

89 posts in this topic

mr_highgrade

mr_highgrade

Posted
Posted
For what it's worth...my friend won a run of TTA # 35-101 in VF+ (67) in the 12/18/91 Sotheby's auction. Issue # 35 (the most expensive book from the lot) came back from CGC 4.5 VG+(A) Restored. Color touch on the spine. The color touch was done in marker no less.
Why didn't he check it back in the day? 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

 

He bought them as investments and never even bothered to check them out. I guess he trusted a major auction house like Sotheby's.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
PovertyRow

PovertyRow

Posted
Posted

He bought them as investments and never even bothered to check them out. I guess he trusted a major auction house like Sotheby's.

 

A good lesson to be learned here. All Sotheby's is,really, is a collection of people who have some knowledge in some areas. But there really IS no "Sotheby's" - just a collection of individuals who should be taken with the same grain of salt as any other. (PS - not really aiming this at YOU MH. But your comment tickled my synapses.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites
shadroch

shadroch

Posted
Posted
For what it's worth...my friend won a run of TTA # 35-101 in VF+ (67) in the 12/18/91 Sotheby's auction. Issue # 35 (the most expensive book from the lot) came back from CGC 4.5 VG+(A) Restored. Color touch on the spine. The color touch was done in marker no less.

 

Something tells me thats the book I just recieved.Unless there are many #35s floating around with marker retouched spines.Damn nice copy,looks alot better than 4.5.

How was the rest of the run?. Still looking for a kickass 59 and always looking for 60s.

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Darthdiesel

Darthdiesel

Posted
Posted
Well if somebody doesn't beat me to it, I'll scan the page for the book in question from the 1992 guide when I get a chance over the next few days.

 

Cool, does this mean Darth and Greggy get to dress like New Kids on the Block?

 

[singing] oh oh O oh oh, oh oh O oh...the Right stuff!"[/singing]

 

[singing] I still be loving you...forever[/singing]

 

[singing] Hanging tough..oh oh oh oh oh...We're rough...rough...[/singing]

 

Greggy can be Danny Wood ( the ape looking guy)

 

SDWW.GIF

 

I can be Joey McIntyre - the prepubescent alto without balls to anchor my voice wink.gif

 

JOE6.GIF

 

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
fantastic_four

fantastic_four

Posted
Posted
I have no "problem" with it, but any sane individual would see a far greater comparison to the industry heavy-weights using early-90's criteria to panel-grade premium comics for a Sotheby's auction, than some picture in a grading guide.

 

Who said it was about the PICTURES? Ignore them and just focus on the written defects and the grades...ah...forget it...I don't know why I don't just get it through my head you'll direct a debate in any inane direction that doesn't threaten your ego. It's rarely about learning with you...it's about being right.

 

 

If you want to draw comparisons, use similar procedures and have it actually relate to the marketplace. The Sotheby vs. CGC graders is a perfect match, and as Greggy has proven, their overall results are consistent (even though these specific examples are weighted towards Sotheby's for harshness).

 

The Overstreet standards don't relate to the marketplace? If that's so...why do you keep using them in other threads to illustrate how off CGC's grading is? You are SUCH a hypocrit! Which would be fine...everybody's a hypocrit...but you're also an arse, which is why I feel free to point it out.

 

What an absolutely stunning display of arrogance!

 

It all depends on where you put more emphasis: a group of the industry's premier graders evaluating some of the most prolific comics in existence for one of the largest auction houses, or a fuzzy picture from a grading guide that has admitted problems.

 

Ah...so Overstreet and Carter were fine to compare against several posts up for you...but to make a point...you're willing to toss them to the dogs and infer they're NOT the "industry's premier graders" by comparing them disparagingly to the Sotheby's graders. AMAZING wishy-washiness!

Link to comment
Share on other sites
fantastic_four

fantastic_four

Posted
Posted
in the face of overwhelming insults?

 

If you don't realize that the usual condescending tone of your responses is inherently insulting...I feel sorry for your co-workers. Besides your intelligence, that's why people like seeing you around here...they know a fight is just around the corner because you act like such a to people.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
fantastic_four

fantastic_four

Posted
Posted
Got them from the catalogs. Have all the Sotheby's and Christie's East ones. As you can see with the 1995 auction, they did not break down the individual grader's grades at least with the Mohawk Valley Showcase 4. 893frustrated.gif

 

Does anyone know whether these same Sotheby's breakdowns are in the Overstreet annuals? I'd like to get my hands on these to check 'em out.

 

Greggy...did they display the grading breakdowns for the 8 panel members only for the premier books, or did they do it for all the comics listed in the catalogs? Were there a lot of lots they displayed the breakdowns for?

Link to comment
Share on other sites
fantastic_four

fantastic_four

Posted
Posted

This isn't directed to Bonds, just to the thread in general...

 

...despite my problem with Joe's combatative and dismissive tone, he brings up a point I've been contemplating for a while that he either didn't sufficiently address or that I wasn't able to see because it was packaged in a wrapper of arrogance--and if that's the case, somebody please reinforce what he said by agreeing with him to answer this. Anyway, the point I'm wondering about is why the Sotheby's grades were much more on par with CGC's grades than the grading samples from the grading guide. I've been wondering this since I heard the grade they gave to that Marvel Comics Pay Copy that was lower than the 9.0 grade CGC gave it.

 

I'm interested in seeing more Sotheby's grades to see how they fell compared to the 2002 Overstreet Grading Guide and CGC's grading...if anybody has specifics about where I can pick those up--such as Overstreet price update years and/or issue numbers or the Sotheby's catalogs themselves--please post that info.

Link to comment
Share on other sites
THE_BEYONDER

THE_BEYONDER

Posted
Posted
in the face of overwhelming insults?

 

If you don't realize that the usual condescending tone of your responses is inherently insulting...I feel sorry for your co-workers. Besides your intelligence, that's why people like seeing you around here...they know a fight is just around the corner because you act like such a to people.

 

EPAXO-joecollector.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites
greggy

greggy

Posted
Posted

There are no breakdown in the Overstreet price guides.

 

Other than the White Mountain AF 15 and the FF 1, complete breakdowns are not given for any other Silver Age book. Sometimes, the consultant grade is the only grade give for the item and sometimes his grade is given in conjuction with the grades of Gary Carter and/or Pat Kochanek. Also, sometimes a random member's grade is given only.

 

Big books to compare with CGC?

 

I will list some of the bigger or more identifiable books to see if anyone knows the CGC grade!

 

1991 auction

 

1) Marvel Comics 1 (Lamont Larson copy) - VF+

2) Marvel Mystery 2 (Lamont Larson copy) - VF+

3) Marvel Mystery 3 (Lamont Larson copy) - VF+

4) Marvel Mystery 4 (Lamont Larson copy) - F

5) Marvel Mystery 4 (Lamont Larson copy) - F

6) Marvel Mystery 5 (Lamont Larson copy) - VF

7) Marvel Mystery 6 (Lamont Larson copy) - VF+

8) Marvel Mystery 7 (Lamont Larson copy) - NM

9) New York World's Fair 1939 and 1940 (Edgar Church copies) - F

10) Whiz 3 (Edgar Church copy) - NM

11) Captain Marvel Thrill Book (Edgar Church copy) - NM

12) More Fun 54 (Edgar Church copy) - NM

13) More Fun 59 (Edgar Church copy) - NM

14) Captain America 7 (Edgar Church copy) - VF

15) Daredevil Comics 1-2 (Edgar Church copies) - NM

16) Action Comics 43 and 53 (Edgar Church copies) - NM

17) Action Comics 63 and 66 (Edgar Church copies) - NM

18) Sub-Mariner 1 (Lamont Larson copy) - VF+

19) Silver Streak 2, 4-6 (Edgar Church copies) - NM

20) Blue Beetle 1-5 (Edgar Church copies) - NM

21) Amazing Spider-man 1 (White Mountain) - NM

22) Incredible Hulk 1, 2, 3, 4, 6 (White Mountain) - NM-

23) X-men 1 (White Mountain) - Featured in a big lot - NM

 

1992 auction

 

1) Pep Comics 1-5 (Edgar Church copies) - NM (91)

2) Detective Comics 8 (Edgar Church copy) - VF (80)

3) More Fun Comics 57 and 62 (Edgar Church copies) - VF (87)

4) More Fun Comics 63 and 66 (Edgar Church copies) - VF (88)

5) More Fun Comics 84, 85, 86, 90, 91, 94, 100, and 121 (Edgar Church copies) - Nm (90)

6) Adventure Comics 77, 89, 114, 119, 143 (Edgar Church copies) - VF (84)

7) Boy Commandos 2, 3, 7, 8, 10, and 12 (Edgar Church copies) - NM (91)

8) Thrilling Comics 1 (Edgar Church copy) - NM (91)

 

1993 auction

 

1) Amazing Fantasy 15 (White Mountain) - NM (94) - CGC grade 9.4

2) Fantastic Four 1 (White Mountain) - VF (86) - CGC grade 9.2

3) Fantastic Four 2-10 (White Mountain) - VF (82)

4) Daredevil 1 (White Mountain) - Featured in a big lot - VF (89.4)

5) Tales of Suspense 39 (White Mountain) - NM (90)

6) Marvel Comics 1 (Pay Copy) - VF (84) - CGC grade 9.0

 

1994 auction

 

1) Captain America 1 (Murphy Anderson provenance) - F (55)

2) Marvel Comics 1 (Murphy Anderson provenance) - Apparent F (65)

 

1995 auction

 

1) Showcase 4 (Mohawk Valley) - VF (84) - CGC grade 8.5

2) Showcase 13 and 14 (Mohawk Valley ) - VF (82) and VF- (75)

3) Detective Comics 225 and 226 (Mohawk Valley) - VF- (76) and VF- (78)

 

1996 auction

 

1) Gaines File Copy for MAD 1-23 (Set 4) - 1-5 NM (95), 21 VF+ (87), other numbers are NM (93)

 

All the other higher value books have no pedigree or well known provenance to track them effectively.

 

1997 auction

 

1) Marvel Comics 1 (Lamont Larson copy) - VF (84)

2) Marvel Mystery Comics 2 (Lamont Larson copy) - VF+ (88)

3) Marvel Mystery Comics 3 (Lamont Larson copy) - VF+ (89)

4) Marvel Mystery Comics 4 (Lamont Larson copy) - F+ (71)

5) Daredevil Comics 1-2 (Edgar Church copies) - NM- (91) and NM (93)

6) Blue Beetle 1-5 (Edgar Church copies) - NM- (90) all copies

7) Adventure Comics 40 (Cosmic Aeroplane) - VG+ (50)

8) All-American 25 (Edgar Church copy) - NM- (91)

9) Flash 86 (Edgar Church copy) - VF+ (87)

10) Crack Comics 27 (Edgar Church copy) - NM (95)

11) All Star Comics 12 (Edgar Church copy) - NM- (91)

 

1998 auction

 

1) Daredevil Battles Hitler 1 (Non pedigree) - NM (93) - Interior paper grade VF+ (87)

 

2000 auction

 

Most high grade and key books are now CGC'd

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites
Go to topic listing