Just a couple of thoughts after reading the ongoing discussion about CGC and TOC ( the other compnay ) as people weigh in.

I've found this ongoing conversation about CGC, TOC, etc to be very interesting and informative as I really appreciate everyones perspective. We're a community of collectors at various stages in the game and I think everybodys perspective is informative.

A few things surprised me though, one was how a lot of people seemed to feel that CGC should have the right to block posts at their discretion whether it be reasonable or totally self serving. A lot of folks seemed to feel like " Hey I deserved to be blocked if I should cross the line ". I feel there are rules and there's right and wrong and they don't always equal the same thing. CGC has basically said in their terms of service for the boards that they own anything you put up and have the right to block anything for any reason. Those are the rules, but you don't have to like it nor do you have to believe that its fair. Although CGC hosts the boards I feel that we the collectors make it what it is. Not only do we finance it through our patronage but we give it substance from our contributions. I think we should feel empowered by this and recognize that power such that if we feel that something is unfair we have the right to demand what we want. The impression I get though is that not many people feel that strongly about being blocked or feel that its totally reasonable under the circumstances which kind of leaves me at a loss, but so be it. Just like great nations, you fall when you stop listening to the people. Also, I understand a lot of people have personal relationships with CGC and what not, which is cool, I'm just a little more cynical. I look at it like business, money for services. My friends do things for me because they love me, CGC does things for me because I pay them.

Like Tnerb, I also was a CGC skeptic, thinking it was not worth the money until I saw what people charged and paid for slabbed books. One area where we disagree is when he says that CGC was started to protect the consumer. I don't deny that maybe that was partly the impetus but in reality I think its simply they recognized an opportunity in the marketplace. Before CGC, you bought books raw and although there were grading standards there was always a big difference between my NM and your NM. I don't feel that CGC was started out of altruism to the consumer, I feel they recognized an opportunity, brought together the expertise and resources then set the price point and went on the dominate the market they helped to create. Lets be clear, its a business, I don't care if they are nice to you or friendly. They process invoices for payment and it ain't cheap. What they really do is allow you to preserve your books, maximize the value of your books, and create a common language and standard for commerce, for money ( lets not forget that ). They extract the cost for all of the aforementioned benefits, its like a profit share and for the most part its totally worth it. I tried to avoid the whole idea of slabbing my books but what sense did it make to have NM books that would quadruple in value just by getting them slabbed. Tremendous value right, but what about what it did to the market. Books quadrupled in value so now you can't buy that book you wanted in 9.8 because its now $275 ( ie. X-facftor 5/6, Thor 337, etc ). It used to be enough to have a book in NM condition, now ( as I am also guilty ) its got to be a 9.8 or its trash, or signed five times with a sketch and cypher on it. When I was a kid everybody was a comic collector, now everybody is a comic book speculator / collector. So it was a tremendous boon to the marketplace but not without a price but what else could you do. Well now there is something else you can do and CGC is none to happy about it.

For the longest time CGC had a monopoly on the market and we gladly paid the price because you had no other viable choice. I feel that this monopoly is in part why you see things like the high fees, $5 processing fee, modern starts at 1980 instead of 75, 4 month turnaround times. Then they turn around and acquire CCS with the assurance that there would be no conflict of interest. What else were you gonna do but pay and wait. I'm sure that to some degree we've all been frustrated by these things at one time or another. I feel like to some degree we were taken for granted. This is in part what frustrates me with this whole idea of blocking peoples posts if the speak about TOC positively or otherwise really. CGC had a monopoly for the longest time, record profits, no competition, etc. If you block people for advertising for a competitor I can understand that but if you block people to keep them from talking about something that may or may not be in their best interest, well thats just fear. If you don't want people to talk about TOC then offer the best service hands down. Your done, nothing to talk about. You don't see anybody blocking posts about PGX, you can talk about PGX all day. PGX, PGX, PGX!

In order to get things to change and address peoples frustration the overall model and service needs to fundamentally change. Like I mentioned in another post, all of a sudden I'm getting advertising emails from CGC that run along the lines of " Now submit your books for the same great price and same great turn around times " which I find a little tone deaf. I always found it funny that they ask you if you have a coupon on the submission form, has anyone ever gotten a coupon for CGC that they didn't pay for?

In my mind the rate limiting step for slabbing books is probably the grading as it requires expertise, but 4 months really. If you were in college, you could submit your books and they'd be ready by the time you finished the semester. How about spending some of that Monopoly money to hire more staff and graders to speed things up. I think a fair turnaround time should be 30 days, thats it. I can close on a home in less that 30 business days. Lets also keep in mind that 30 business days is like a month and half. Also, lets make received mean what its says, you receive my books and the clock starts ticking.

Modern needs to start at 1975 not 1980. I find it funny that CCS still considers modern to be 1975 but CGC starts at 1980. Whats up with that, is this just to capture higher fees on a larger percentage of books.

Handling fee needs to disappear, plain and simple. You paid the cost for handling when you paid the submission fee. Separating them out as separate fees is petty.

Price points should drop to round numbers, like 15, 25, 35, etc. No more 18's or 28's.

You should receive email notifications as your books move through the process if you like. You should be able to see your grades as soon as they're available because they're not gonna renegotiate the grades anyway. I remember they used to do that, you called and they would even email you spreadsheet upon request. Graders note should be free. I don't understand how you can pay for the service of grading your books but if you want to know why, well thats extra. You already paid for it, plain and simple. Grading standards should be transparent, it would eliminate a lot of confusion in the process and ease a lot of frustration with getting books back that don't grade out like you would expect.

Anyway, th

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