Drew99

You can click on the double arrows on the navigation bar and jump straight to the end and that will be the current.  If you don’t have what you’re looking for there, you could post this question in that spot and you’ll get an answer real quick from one of the people who are always on that board.

This is a new guy… he might not know that.  
 

there’s a thread that’s really a popular one that you can get into the weeds if you want to.  That’s the best place to read about it and ask people who are already interested.

On 10/6/2021 at 2:58 PM, PaulS. said:

Correct. These were cut in such a way that, at a glance, they do not look like Collector's Edition cards. Therefore we will not grade them. 

Tabernacle!!!!!

There’s a myth out there that alpha cards are rounded way more than they really are.  They are just cut differently… that’s all. Most people have never seen an alpha timetwister and may be “fooled” by a picture of one side of a card but certainly not a grader or someone familiar with the cards.  The cuts and the borders are easily distinguishable from a mile away.

Yeah, true enough.  This has been a really terrible experience.  Appreciate your thoughts

I got some bad guidance from an employee but I don’t want to go further than that because their intention wasn’t bad.

bottom line Pail is correct.

I don’t agree but he is correct.  Harsh is an understatement.  

the most absurd thing to me of this whole thing is the pictures and Paul’s general idea that if anyone could confuse them with another set idea.  That’s really lame.  
 

Who cares if some rando person might????  
 

lastly the side of a card thing really sticks out to me.  For whatever reason they have a “one side” rule which just seems to be completely made up for my cards.  
 

Or rather, maybe the CE cards and IE cards are so unique that they don’t have rules to deal with them. 
 

on a previous board I asked to respond to the picture you see and it was well… one side looks fake… and I’m like… you don’t get a grade for each side.  The card is looked at as a whole and there’s like several places I can copy and paste from your site that discuss this on the grading.  
 

doesn’t matter… they have a rule.  You don’t know what it is.  But they have a rule.  
 

its a procedure.  He’s correct.  He’s following the rules.  I know he’s being truthful… but to only look at one side of a card and say that the other one CANNOT be taken into account when the other side looks like mine is a bit problematic if your trying to say that my cards are trying to be “deceptive”

That was the nature of my specific questions when I called and asked in advance.  They are collectors edition cards.  They can’t be deceptive… just turn them over… apparently they have a “one side”rule

and they have a “if anyone who isn’t a trained grader who might be under the mistaken uninformed impression that your card might look like something that it’s not” rule 

but yes generally… Paul is correct

He’s generally pretty responsive to new posters… customer support is a call center and you may get an answer but it will not be a complete or precise answer.  
 

This is a precise question.    

I had an authentication question… just generally… CGC doesn’t really differentiate between the two.  If they can’t grade it… they won’t authenticate it is my understanding.  However, your cards could be fine and I’m sure Paul will give you better guidance than I can

It is impossible to know for sure… just don’t call customer support.  Wait for Paul to weigh in on it before spending any money.  He seems to be the most complete answer on these issues and the final word.  
 

Don’t go down that rabbit hole is my advice.  

I have just got off the phone and I feel it’s reasonable to ask for a refund.  If the cards aren’t gradable… fine… I shouldn’t have paid for grading.  
 

The person I have been on the phone with is a very nice person and confirmed what I have said here.  There has been a mistake.

Paul, you can contact me privately if you want to discuss further what exactly has happened if you wish.  I have no interest in dragging this out further.

I have many issues with the policy here but they are your policies and Paul has stated the policy correctly.  I have no further dispute.

my impression was that authentication occurred before grading and I would therefore be able to have an authentication only service which I have recently inquired about as recently as Friday of last week.  This is still a confusing item in customer support.

my apologies.

please do let me know if you do offer an authentication only service in the future as this is a valuable area of collecting and I thought, believed that I was pursuing this end with CGC.  I was misinformed.  
 

On 10/4/2021 at 9:57 AM, Yeahiwasder4dat said:

So whether or not it's encapsulated depends on the alteration? In this case collector edition cards have square cut corners instead of round but because it looks more similar to an alpha/beta it won't be encapsulated even if there isn't malicious intent?

It's less of the fact that it's altered, and more so because the alteration just makes it appear as a different card? I would have assumed if it wasn't auth, it would've gotten a NG instead of an AC. Although this doesn't apply to me in Magic cards but I was struggling to understand the difference as I sub sports cards as well and those are far more often doctored than Magic/Pokemon and the same standards are probably applicable to CSG.

Like for example a trimmed 1960/70 card would get an AC grade and be slabbed, but if you stamped something to make it look like a more rare version for example it wouldn't be but might get an AC label as well?

That's probably not the best example as I can't think of any of those that were stamped. Let's say instead, someone removed the "Reprint" part on the back of a card. As that would dynamically change the card and it's value to make it appear as a different card.

Asking less about grading, but in terms of what I might need to be aware of of I see a slab with an AC designation vs someone with a raw card. It would mean there's a larger underlying issue if someone is selling one that isn't slabbed, and I should avoid it. I buy a lot of them as well.

Hold up a second… this is amazing.  Apologies to all.  I am on the phone with the customer support person from last week right now who was in touch with the graders who said they WERE authenticated. 

So great… now I don’t know what I have again.  
 

Paul, does CGC offer an authentication ONLY service?  I do not want the cards graded.  Just for clarification.

I can only go on what I have been told.

On 10/3/2021 at 11:02 AM, topcat54 said:

If you are looking just to display the for yourself BCW Resealable Graded Card Sleeves will work till CGC changes their policy .

Just saying at least they will be safer in a good case for the time being.

Yeah… good thought.  Will probably go that route.

What can you do…….. ?  I did want to use them but until they start taking the secure part seriously… I’ll have to wait until they figure things out.

This is a very narrow issue about company policy. I want to be clear that I take no issue with the graders at all.

I received the correct designations from the graders.  I also received a couple other cards back that were graded and they were accurate and looked great.  I really like their cases.

it’s a policy issue, not a quality or anything of that sort.  

My main frustration here honestly is that I don’t want to use another service… all collectors are a bit OCD and I’m no different.

I don’t want a bunch of PSA cases mixed in with my CGC cases.  And I want to be able to display my power nine set in a nice layout.

I hope that they do offer an authentication only service in the future… what they offer now is not an authentication service… it just isn’t.  But otherwise… I really like the look of their cases and I do think they grade correctly. (Just a little something positive… it wasn’t all a bad experience)
 

The reasons that the cards can’t be graded is understood… I did not want them graded.

grading and authentication are separate things. 
 

I know that these cards CANNOT be graded and I do. It want them to be graded.  I only want them authenticated and set in plastic because they are valuable parts of my collection and people who buy them want this 

I did not want them graded but they do not offer this service but the eye will tell you that they do. 
 

Read the post title very carefully.  They do not encapsulate authenticated cards.  (This has nothing to do with grading)

On 10/2/2021 at 5:33 PM, Rufuss C. Kingston said:

You just don't get it.  You asked them to authenticate the cards, however, because the cards were "trimmed"/dimensionally altered (not to deceive though), they are NO  LONGER authentic as far as CGC is concerned.  One of the standards for a card to be deemed authentic by CGC is that the card is dimensionally the same as it was when issued by the manufacturer, except in instances of mfg error/miscut.  You basically handcut the card, and thus it is no longer authentic, because as I said previously, if CGC deemed it authentic, then they are deeming the modifications you made as authentic.    CGC does NOT have a Green Label qualifier of "dimensions altered", so thus you can't get a grade of Authentic Altered.

No sir, CGC and I are in agreement, there is no dispute on what they did.  
 

The cards are authenticated… You are incorrect.  
 

CGC DOES consider the cards authentic and these are authenticated cards. CGC has stated and I have an official statement that hey ARE AUTHENTICATED.   

anything that receives a slip is authenticated.  I had to follow up with customer support to verify this because the slips say AC which is confusing but there it is.

there are also cards that for whatever reason they CANNOT authenticate due to certain types of alterations and such that would make it impossible to know… such as if someone took a sharpie and went over pertinent parts of a card (yes people did that too).  Those would not receive a slip.

these are not examples of that.  This is the full authentication service for altered cards through CGC.
 

That’s what I’m trying to pass along.  These cards were not ruled out.  They got the designation AC that was discussed, that was anticipated, and that is CORRECT.  

I did not submit the cards for grading.
 

If you want an authentication service… your cards will NOT be encapsulated.  
 

THE END

On 10/2/2021 at 2:56 PM, onlyweaknesskryptonite said:

Something that surprises me about this is that they return the cards in a standard sleeve and the label just inserted. You would think at least they would be branded CGC toploader/sleeve that would have a  tamper proof seal making at least some attempt to deter misuse of the authentication.  

Yes!!! This guy gets it…that’s the only thing I payed for… a SECURE opinion

On 10/2/2021 at 1:56 PM, Yeahiwasder4dat said:

Strange to me that a card can receive a grade for being touched with ink but not trimmed under Auth/altered. Such is the case with most other places.

No card can receive a grade that is altered.  I believe this is consistent in all grading across all companies.

green label cards are artistic altered I believe.

However, the designation of altered is separate and apart from the authentication.  If you receive the slip, it is authenticated… but they will not Slab it.  
 

That’s the point.  They are saying you are paying for someone to render an opinion.  And I take issue with that.  

People  do NOT pay to do that.  They pay for a secure opinion from a grading agency.  They have every right to choose not to do it or whatever they do or don’t… it’s their company… but they cannot say that the cards I have received and are pictured have received an official 3rd party authentication as is offered by other agencies.  
 

you can’t have it both ways.  Nobody will buy these cards as authenticated as they are NOT secured and verifiable.  Anyone could tamper with that so it’s not valid.  

I do not want nor did I seek a numerical grade.  My cards are altered and should NOT be graded.  I olnly wanted them to slab what they actually did do.

the graders at CGC are correct in their designation.  It’s the company and their policy, the website, the disconnect in communication with customer support I have an issue with.

the graders also had several

other items.  Everything I got back… everything from a grading perspective was top notch and accurate.  
 

Not slabbing the cards is not the choice of the graders, it’s a company issue, policy.  
 

On 10/2/2021 at 1:56 PM, Yeahiwasder4dat said:

Strange to me that a card can receive a grade for being touched with ink but not trimmed under Auth/altered. Such is the case with most other places.

No card can receive a grade that is altered.  I believe this is consistent in all grading across all companies.

green label cards are artistic altered…

However, the designation of altered is separate and apart from the authentication.  If you receive the slip, it is authenticated… but they will not Slab it.  
 

That’s the point.  They are saying you are paying for someone to render an opinion.  And I take issue with that.  People  do NOT do that.  They pay for a secure opinion from a grading agency.  They have every right to choose not to do it or whatever they do or don’t… it’s their company… but they cannot say that the cards I have received and are pictured have received an official 3rd party authentication as is offered by other agencies.  
 

you can’t have it both ways.  Nobody will buy these cards as authenticated as they are NOT secured and verifiable.  Anyone could tamper with that so it’s not valid.  

I do not want nor did I seek a numerical grade.  My cards are altered and should NOT be graded.  I olnly wanted them to slab what they actually did do.

the graders at CGC are correct in their designation.  It’s the company and their policy, the website, the disconnect in communication with customer support I have an issue with.

the graders also had several

other items.  Everything I got back… everything from a grading perspective was top notch and accurate.  
 

Not slabbing the cards is not the choice of the graders, it’s a company issue, policy.  
 

The only relevant item is that they did authenticate the cards.  It’s not a question of whether they should or should not.  They did.

Read the title of the posting.  They do not encapsulate authenticated cards.

if you have a card that is altered and is a high dollar card.  You can call customer service right now… I did yesterday and ask.  Hey, can you provide an authentication only service.

They will tell you yes…

you will receive what I received in the mail.

it’s authentic… congratulations… but we will offer no secure authentication so it’s worthless.  
 

if anyone needs this service… MTG is a game where many old cards are damaged.  People might want to know this.  They will proclaim a service… but they actually really don’t 

The best is when they replied and said one side could have been mistaken for a card from another set… of the 12 places on their site and the several posts from the same dude where they discuss the card as a whole getting a single number for the grade and sub grade…

now only one side matters…not familiar with that policy on the site but okay, now we have policies conflicting with other policies.

there is a such a thing as Rebacked cards… it’s a problem… but this isn’t one.  It was submitted under the proper set and year and is not clipped anywhwe close to an alpha. 
 

also, CE were made

from BETA plates anyways and if you can’t tell the difference… it just blows my mind

On 10/2/2021 at 3:51 AM, Rufuss C. Kingston said:

CGC does authenticate cards, cause they wouldn't encapsulate a fake card.  But I don't believe CGC encapsulates cards where the dimensions are altered, or for the most part "hand cut" cards.   I believe that as a matter of standards, CGC does NOT slab anything that has been trimmed or altered dimension wise.  What you are asking for is a "grade" of Authentic Altered, but that is not a grade that CGC offers.  Yes, other companies do, but just because they do doesn't mean CGC automatically does.   When you called in, were you VERY specific that you were going to submit altered/mutilated (jk) cards?   When you made your submission, did you put somewhere that you wanted them graded as Authentic altered?   CGC could NOT just encapsulate them as Authentic because that would not imply that they were altered,

They do authenticate altered cards.  These cards are considered authenticated by CGC

i know this is a convoluted post.

I hear what your saying… pretend for a second that I had all of your questions and concerns and I called in advance and asked… that… and they say… oh yea sir we can help you…

then you get what I got back in the mail…

oh… well we didn’t know you wanted it in plastic… well we won’t do that…

it’s so hard to explain because it’s so crazy

On 10/1/2021 at 1:00 PM, GuiceBoxxx said:

Not sure if this is satire or not but, did you just suggest that a company that prides itself on accurate and impartial validation and conditional grading services should somehow alter their standards to give cards a higher grade than they deserve to increase YOUR resale value? The only reason a CGC 8.5 is valued higher as a PSA is because it's common knowledge that CGC has a far superior grading standards which is what collectors want. With your suggestion after a very short period of time a CGC 9 would be a PSA 8 because the standards have been relaxed. If you are here solely to make money that's fine but don't throw all your cards at the wall and get upset when their condition is accurately assessed and encapsulated as such. CGC will be fine with maintaining their standards, and they have already eclipsed all other grading services with the exception of Beckett. Most collectors will tell you they are basically equal as far as service and standards to Beckett the undisputed premium grading service.

Of the problems I have with CGC… the grading is not one of them.  What I have received from them was very accurate.  I prefer a harsh grade and knowing that a 10 should be extremely rare and a 9 should be valuable. 

The should not change their grading standards.  They have a few definition and process issues… but as far as what is a 8, 9 or 10.  They are

leaning into the “our number matters” and they don’t just give them out.  

On 9/30/2021 at 9:35 AM, Kusig said:

Something to point out. The labels don't say authentic they just say altered card. Its possible they saw it as altered and couldn't authenticate it or for whatever reason didn't think it was authentic. Either way, this isn't the service you're looking for and should go somewhere that does what you're looking for. Its obvious there was some miscommunication or misrepresentation of what happened and for a company that grades stolen cards and labels them as "inadvertent early release" I don't see why they didn't just slab it. 

This was also an issue that I had that took over a week at customer support to get an answer to.  Did they do anything at all?

what I received in the box was what you see in the picture plus a small checklist grader sheet with a checklist on it that was checked “ac”… nothing else.  The lotus was a separate order and was sandwiched between two pieces of foam but did not have a honeycomb and was rolling around like a rattle in the box.

afrer several emails and talking to several customer support reps who had no idea… I finally did receive a verbal answer.  Still waiting on an answer to my original emails… not holding my breath. 
 

Essentially if it gets a slip then it is authenticated.  

This is why they are able to charge me.  If you call CGC right now and ask for just an authentication, no grading, of an alteration.  They will agree to do that.  

This IS the service they provide.  They say that you got what you paid for… a graders opinion… which is actually not true at all and probably important for a grading  agency to understand.

People don’t submit to a grading company for an opinion… they do so for a Secure, official, opinion.  That is the purpose of 3rd part grading.

If I can’t prove the work was done…it is worthless.

they seem to be under the impression that I was disappointed that the cards were not graded… that is NOT the case.  I knew that the cards were not gradable before I submitted them because I called and asked.  I used the service for authentication.  
 

in high end magic cards, these are big money items.  Apparently CGC doesn’t want to be in that market.  That’s cool… but people should probably know that… if you call them they will claim they offer an authentication service.  
 

if you have expensive alters, judge for yourself whether you think this is a valid service.  
 

this is really about education of other people so they don’t get sucked into what I did.  These will get slabbed… just with another company.  I have several in my collection and I have the Lotus sitting a PSA right now.  I thought I would give CGC a try.  
 

for anyone interested… that’s what happened to me

On 9/29/2021 at 7:04 PM, PokemanDude90 said:

After reading about this on here and on the other thread I still have no idea what we are talking about.

Are people trimming Magic cards and then subsequently getting mad when CGC isn’t grading them? What is going on lmao

The card pictures sold for 12,000 dollars.  Do you understand now?  Altered cards that are rare in Magic are some of the most valuable cards in collecting.  
 

There is real value in have a card authenticated and encapsulated/ NOT graded

On 9/29/2021 at 7:20 PM, Qalyar said:

I'm somewhat sympathetic to the OP here. CGC is willing to produce a label (albeit an AC label without a numeric grade) for these cards, but apparently not to encapsulate them with that label. For the comics folks, this is something like if NG books (coverless, for example) shipped back in a Mylar with the label inside instead of actually being slabbed.

Yes…‘I don’t get what people don’t get… I don’t want them graded.  
 

the graders did a fine job.  I got the correct slips.  They just need to encapsulate what they did so that it’s secure and I can prove that the work was done.  
 

I am not suggesting anyone should be dishonest… what would prevent someone from making a dummy proxy and putting their slip in it??? Nobody will buy these cards like this.  The whole point of having this done is for a secure opinion.  
 

just put exactly what they did in plastic.  I have no dispute with their opinion on the card.