lou_fine

Definitely a risk factor. Especially when opening weekend for even your big movies are now still running only in the ten's of million dollars with big huge dropoffs in the following weekends, as compared to the good old pre-pandemic when they were running into the hundreds of millions of dollars and also with some legs to them after their opening weekend.

I believe this is pretty much of a no-brainer here.

I've actually talked to him quite a few times about this collection of his (ok, if you know Magik, basically he talked and I ended up listening ) and although he certainly did have a lot of reasons for going with CBCS, grading fees were never ever mentioned even once in any of the conversations. Except for a few of the bigger books, I don't think there would have been much signifiant differences in the grading fees back then back in 2014 or thereabouts. The biggest reason and the one that he had kept harping on back then time and time again was that CGC couldn't be trusted to grade his books properly because they were all a bunch of newbies who didn't know what they were doing and always ended up overgrading their books, which was the last thing he wanted to have done to his books. Not too sure, but at that time, there was probably a bit of merit to that argument as the 2011 to 2012 time period or thereabouts have generally been recognized as a time for overgraded books coming from CGC. Enough to make me extra careful when it comes to bidding on a CGC graded book from this particular time period when I check the grading date from the serial number. I believe another reason why he went with CBCS was that he was on good terms with Borock and as a result, had both trust and confidence with the grading joib which they would do. Being an entertainer by trade, I also believe he likes to have his name out there and the fact that Borock was willing to put "From The Personal Collection of Mister Magik Woo" was a big deal for him, as he had pointed this out to me a few times and the fact that they had to relabelled all of the slabs because they had initially spelled his last name incorrectly. Not sure if CGC would have done this for him at the time, but also a case of to each their own, as that would certainly be something that a lot of collectors here (including me) would certainly not want at all. Yeah, I agree 110% with you that he ended up leaving a lot of money on the table by refusing to go with CGC for the grading, with the Richie Rich #1 File Copy being another perfect case in point. Being an old-time collector in this new "maximization of potential" focused marketplace, he definitely also left even more money on the table by apparently refusing to have any of his books pressed because he viewed that as artificial manipulation of the books and something that should never ever be done. From my own POV for what it's worth, another issue was although all of the books were graded at the same time, the release of them on HA from most valuable to least valuable over the years should have been done the other way around. His argument was that the Suspense 3 and the HG Spidey books the following year would raise the profile for the rest of his collection so that they could achieve better results when it came to their turn. Clearly another case of to each their own, as I personally would probably leave my most valuable books until the very end to sell, whenever it came time to dispose of my collection even though I clearly have nothing like what he had in terms of the Suspense and Spidey's.

That's a great example of what Tim already pointed out. When that book dropped people immediately said it was overgraded, they should have gone with CGC, CBCS affected the sale price, etc. Not sure how you guys managed to get away with posting this pic here since I always get a warning and post deleted whenever I post a picture of a book that's been graded by the across the street. Nevertheless, this example also clearly reminds me of the CBCS 9.0 graded Penn copy of Suspense Comics 3 auctioned off on HA a couple of years earlier back in 2015 and managed to fetched just over $173K for that copy, even though the exact same negative connatations were also said about that copy at the time. I remember it really picked up steam when the exact same consignor than proceeded to auction off a CBCS 8.5 graded copy of AF 15 the following year in 2016, with many boardies here stating that the book would be lucky to grade higher than the 7's if CGC ever got their hands on the book. Found it kind of funny when the eventual winner of the books was called an absolutely know nothing fool for paying something like $77K for the book (or at a 32% discount to condition guide) and how they were not only going to lose their shirt, but also their pants on this purchase of theirs. Lo and behold, the exact same copy of AF 15 would end up being encased in a CGC holder with the exact same 8.5 grade and then resold once again some short months later at HA, but this time for over $155K: https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/amazing-fantasy-15-marvel-1962-cgc-vf-85-off-white-to-white-pages/a/7158-91123.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515 No surprise though that the same boardies who had called the buyer a fool at $77K were now calling him a fool for selling at such a low price of only $155K because the book was really worth a lot more than that and he should be holding out for much more money on the book.

Then again, I guess it's really a case of to each their own...........especially when you see a CGC 9.2 graded copy of Silver Surfer 9 sell for only a piddly $384 (well maybe not so piddly since one sold for only $264 back in February) this past Monday on Heritage: https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/the-silver-surfer-9-marvel-1969-cgc-nm-92-white-pages/a/122132-13712.s?ic16=ViewItem-BrowseTabs-Inventory-BuyNowFromOwner-ArchiveSearchResults-012417&lotPosition=0|7# Especially when you compared it to a CGC 9.8 graded copy that sold for a rather stratosperic $42K earlier this year. All I can say is that there's definitely a big huge mathematical difference between $384 and $42K, while there's clearly not the same relative difference between a CGC 9.2 and a CGC 9.8 graded book that's been determined based solely upon a subjective opinion, albeit a so-called professional one at that. Either way, more power to the bidders if they are willing to bid that much higher for a CGC label.

Well, if you feel this way about the CGC 9.6 Surfer 4 sale on CL for $17,250; then I imagine you must be absolutely ecstatice with the $90K result for a CGC 9.8 copy of Heritage only a few short weeks after this CL sale: https://comics.ha.com/itm/silver-age-1956-1969-/the-silver-surfer-4-marvel-1969-cgc-nm-mt-98-white-pages/a/7244-91017.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515

Was this below the 10% for ALL fees combined which I would find really surprsing for HA, but if it's below 10% for just the SP portion only, then that's quite normal depending upon what portion of the BP they give back to you (if any at all)?

That's what makes Heritage so great IMO (among other things). Never experienced that opportunity at CC or CLINK but did with Hakes Well, if your starting point for fees are in the 30%+ range, then HA clearly has a lot more flexibility for adding in some freebies as compared to both CC and CL where the fees are generally baked in already at only 10%. As a consignor, the only real thing that should matter is how much you are able to pocket out of the whole transaction by the time it's all said and done.

Hey Mitch; Looks like you can pick up the entire run of Lance O'Casey all in one shot if that's what you are into.

Kind of remind me of Schmell when it came time to dispose of his own personal Marvel SA collection and he took it to Heritage, instead of entrusting it to sell on his own Pedigree Comics.com auction website. Makes you kind of wonder why any consignor should be taking their books to Pedigree to sell. Of course, I guess his counter argument might be that putting his own book on his own auction website could possible be perceived as a potential conflict of interest, but I highly doubt that was the reason why he decided to go with Heritage.

As others had already speculated here before, highly doubt there will really be that many of the Promise Collection books coming out for resale any time soon. Especially since most buyers hate to be on the losing end when it comes to their bank accounts. Clearly the scenario for the Promise Collection books is playing out quite differently as compared to the Jon Berk books where we saw so many of them come back out into the marketplace within a few weeks encased in higher graded slabs and reselling for significantly more money. I still remember seeing a whole slew of the Jon Berk books going through Ritter's Worldwide website like this and I guess only time will tell if this same MO will take place with the Promise Collection books, but I highly doubt it for many reasons. Although collectors might call it something else not so endearing, but speaking from a corporate POV, this would be a classic example of business synergies in full play.

Yes. Heritage, with respect to the McLaughlin collection back in 2006. The comics were sold at the direction of the court as part of the disposition of his estate, and the judge refused to authorize grading fees. Since there were 600 or so Church books in the collection, Heritage slabbed a small portion to maximize their revenue. This doesn't really tell us a whole lot when it comes to Heritage due to their wide range of fees which they have in play. Did the judge also refused to authorize the Buyer's Premium and the Seller's Premium to be paid out to Heritage or did the estate have to pay the full shot on both of these fees without the same level of flexibility or negotiation that other big consignors normally receive?

Pretty close, but not quite right and as a result, please note the corrections which I have made for you above.

As far as I am aware, no consignors to any of the big 3 comic book auction houses would ever have to pay upfront to cover grading fees. They all would be more than happy to cover your up front grading/pressing costs and then simply deduct it back out as a line item on the payment owing to you just to get your books. Now, as to agreeing to go one big step further and cover your grading fees enntirely so that you do not have to pay for them in the end at all, now that would be a completely different story. I imagine it would be based upon how good your negotiation skills and the quality of your books are. I imagine Heritage would have a lot more leeway to play here in terms of agreeing to waive your grading fees, but then not letting you know that they will not agree to give you back as much in terms of your BP and SP. I just don't see Heritage agreeing to waive these egregious new higher fees without getting something back in return. It's probably like the old styple haggling when you go to the car lot to buy a car. Sure, they'll give you a much better price on your used car, but then also give you a much smaller discount on your new car. Probably a case of six or one half dozen of the other here.

must of been reading this thread... Not sure if I am reading this Main Page from their website properly or not, since I have not yet ever submitted any of my books for grading to date, but as far as I can tell, the max cap at either $2,600 for members or $2,750 for non-members still seems to be there for same day service with no value limit: https://www.cbcscomics.com/grading-pressing-price I haven't gone in any further to see if it's actualy been removed once you move further along into their online submission process.

Well, it's quite clear to me that the owner of this 8.0 Action 1 and Church Tec 1 was quite sober and at the top of his game as he manaed to get his books through while the $5K max cap was still in place. Defintely not totally drunk or zonked out on a bender thinking that CGC will be knocking on his door with wads of cash to give to him for the privilege of grading his books for him.

Ummm................not exactly sure what kind of dream world you are living in if you truly believe that CGC will pay you to have the so-called honor of grading your books for you. I believe they ALREADY feel that they dominate their competitors and have pretty much cornered the grading of the high end vintage collectible comic book marketplace to the point that they CAN charge these egregious prices for pressing and grading and submittors will continue to line up to have their books graded by them. Only time will tell, but they indeed might just be correct in their belief here.

Looks like you might have missed all of the discussion we had on this very topic back on Page 3 of this very thread here. The max charge cap was indeed only $3K way back in the day before being bumped up to $5K several years ago. With the latest price increase as of the end of April, the cap has now been removed and the max charge is now simply 3% of the estimated value of the book in question. BTW: If I remember correctly, that $60K fee was for a book valued at $2M. So, not very many books would be paying this kind of fee. But if it did qualify, the real charge would probably be more like over $100K because with the way books are currently being graded, it could cost you very dearly if you dare to have a book graded without it being pre-screened for pressing at a minimum. So, if it did go through both the pressing and grading process, you would now be looking at $120K (i.e. $60K or thereabouts for pressing and another $60K for grading) to have the book certified on the first go round. Like I had pointed out, much more expensive than the 2.6% with a max cap of $2,600 for members or 2.75% with a max cap of only $2,750 per book for slabbing their high end books with the other guys across the street. So, I totally agree with you that no way in heck will CGC be waving that fee because they feel that their brand is strong enough that submittors will continue to pay this huge difference for their label.

Well, this definitely doesn't look like much of a profit margin (if any at all) here if they had to pay $9,600 for the book (excluding shipping charges and any state taxes if applicable) and they are now hoping to sell it for only $10K. Makes me wonder if the buyer had a change of heart about keeping the book and simply trying to recoup as much of their money as possible?

No, not that one particular post in and of itself, but I clearly and definitely do get that sense from the gist of all of your other posts leading up to it. And yes, you are correct in stating that regrading fees have nothing to do with whether or not you are posting a video. I was referring more to the fact that since it was to be a video on you cracking out a book, this would eventually result in regrading fees upon being reslabbed. Of course, I would be wrong here if you was planning to sell the book raw upon its eventual resale, and dare I say that in and of itself would also be a bad idea since slabbed books always sell for more than raw books in today's vintage collectible comic book marketplace. So, to rephrase the gist of my original post which you did not seem to fully understand on the first go round. Although it might not be the best idea from a strict financial POV to be cracking out high dollar value books due to CGC's higher grading fees which they have recently implemented, may I also dare to add without personally offending you that it's probably not a bad idea from a strict collector's POV to crack out a book so that it can be enjoyed in all its glory the way it was originally meant to be enjoyed. Especially when you should be given kudos for having already cracking out so many of your slabbed books to which @szav was referring to in his post and which many of us here (including me) enjoyed watching.

Hey Tim; Can you please sprinkle some of your magic dust onto the rest of us poor slobs when it eventually comes time for us to sell our books here? It seems that you just have the magic touch of always getting the highest prices for your books, especially when some of them are such unexpected outliers and completely out of this world like the $90K for your Four Color Uncle Scrooge in the last Heritage Auction.

You don't even read the posts you respond to, do you? Oh, there you are............the same old usual snarky and obtuse long time boardie who's finally come out from his hibernation and back onto the comic book boards here. Needless to say, all of your fomer boardie buddies here missed your usual derisive and condescending posts while you were gone. Seriously though, are you implying that you don't have to pay for regrading fees if you crack out one of your CGC graded books when you eventually go to have it reslabbed? Or, did you miss my point because YOU don't even read or understand the posts that YOU are responding to?

Since I don't have a FaceBook or IG account, any idea how much more they are asking for this Promise copy of All Winners 7 since it looks like it sold for $9,600 at HA less tha a month ago: https://comics.ha.com/itm/golden-age-1938-1955-/all-winners-comics-7-the-promise-collection-pedigree-timely-1942-cgc-fn-55-off-white-to-white-pages/a/122129-15045.s?ic4=ListView-ShortDescription-071515# Looks like a very nicely presenting copy to me, especially relative to the CGC assigned grade of only CGC 5.5 F-. Then again, maybe it's sacrilege to say something like that here, as certain board members here will view a statement like that to be as questioning CGC's grading.

Thanks for asking. Nope. Sadly, most definitely not the best idea in the world from a strict financial POV, considering the new grading fees that CGC just put into place the other month.

Absolutely no idea where you got this from in terms of reading my post. I think everybody here (including you ) knows very well that the desirability for a particular comic book or group of comic books is determined by many factors. Surprisingly, market acceptance would just happen to be one of them and might help to explain the reason why a Church or Allentown copy of a particular book sells for more than say a Davis Crippen copy even though they are both pedigree copies and might even be in equivalent graded condition. Too early in the game for the Promise Collection books with still so many copies left to see what's actually in there, and these early copies (especially the first batch) highly influenced by both hype and the current robust marketplace, that I am not sure if these prices will hold going forward as we get further along into the collection. BTW: Absolutely love that Promise Collection of Flash 86 which you picked up as it appears to be an absolute beauty with all those bright sharp cover colors as that has always been one of my very favorite Flash covers by far.