lou_fine

Wow. Glad I turned down the offer(s) on mine. Most definitely since I believe it's the Edgar Church copy which you owned?

Does anybody here remember what it sold for when it was only a CGC 8.5 graded copy and then when it resold as a CGC 9.0 graded copy?

I'd take the OA to Batman 251 any day of the week. It is a toss-up for me. I get the significance of both, but I wouldn't spend that much loot on either. To each their own, I would imagine, as underground art certainly doesn't get me reaching for my wallet at all. Much more of a mainstream collector and I guess that's the reason why I forked over $40 for that now virtually worthless limited signed and number hardcover edition of the Dark Knight and said a big fat definitive NO to paying $300 for TMNT #1 with that horrid looking interior artwork.

Wow, just took a quick look at some of the GA books due to close in the Heritage Auction tomorrow and the market still appears to be on fire for most of the books. Not sure what's happening with some of these Wonderworld books though: While many books are already running at huge multiples to condition guide, it looks like this one here is still running at less than half of condition guide. It would appear that the CGC 6.0 graded copy of Wonderworld 5 is doing slightly better, but not by much as it also still continues to run at a discount to condition guide.

Well, if I had a time machine, I would have it set back a little further to 1940, as opposed to just 1980.

+1 I believe you might be 100% correct when it comes to the case of Brittle pages. Although I have always assumed that the PQ does not signifcantly factor into the final grade of a book since it is clearly a separate indicator of the book's condition level, I guess a book with Brittle pages does tend to knock the final grade down quite a few notches.

Wow, this is very definitely a nosiy blast from the past as I still very clearly remember how the boards blew up over this whole discussion on this issue about 15 years ago. Yes indeed, the entire purpose of the multi-color labels for restored and unrestored books was actually viewed as something positive when CGC first started up. Unfortunately for the hobby place and as Borock had mentioned in the past, it had the unintended consequences of making the restored books so easy to stand out and to stigmatize, and as a result, literally "destroyed" the value of all restored books overnight. It didn't matter whether they were just slightly and professionally restored or extensively and amateurishly restored, they were all simply lumped into the one same bucket because of the PLOD label. Although Borock made an attempt to correct this situation 5 years after the fact, board members simply could not buy onto this change at that late stage in the game. Similar to right now, one of the biggest arguments was that buyers would end up buying restored books by mistake thinking they were unrestored just because they had the same color label. Even though a formal Restoration Rating System was to be implemented at the same time, it was still argued by some boardies that it would still be far too difficult to expect them to be able to differentiate a R-0 Unrestored Rated book from a R-10 Extensively Restored book, even if clearly denoted as such on the label. I personally found that argument totally ludicrous as it is tantamount to saying that a buyer would be unable to differentiate a CGC 0.5 graded Poor condition book from a CGC 9.8 graded NM/M condition book unless they were had different color labels. Personally, I thought the reason why this attempt by Borock failed was because they decided to get the feedback from the board members before implementing this significant change. Especially when we all know how people hate change. Even more so, when this change was attempted right after the whole hidden manipulation of pressing books first came to light along with the whole Jason Ewert micro-trimming fiasco which was uncovered on the boards here. Definitely the wrong time to try to make a change like that as nobody was trusting of what CGC was saying at the time. Interesting that the revamp of the whole restoration gading sytem and introduction of the category for Conserved books was successfully implemented by CGC as they simply "forced" it in this time, without any consultation or request for feedback at all from board members on this go round. I agree with Roy that the uni-color label with a both a 10-point condition grading system in combination with a 10-point restoration rating system would have worked without much problem if it had been implemented by CGC right from the get go. It sadly did not work 5 years after the fact and definitely would not work now 20 years later as it's pretty much impossible to break old habits, as clearly evident by the other company's disastrous attempt to introduce an uni-color label.

A good model for any business marketing is to have a different color labeling. M & M's yellow = nut inside M & M's black - plain inside. It's best when the masses do not have to read the label. I don't want to eat the wrong M & M's because I didn't read the unicolor M & Ms therefore I love myself the yellow colored M & M over the black colored M & M. So, from your line of thinking here, did CGC make a big mistake by going with the same uni-blue color label for all unrestored books across the entire condition spectrum, whether they were entry level low grade copies or whether they were uber HG copies? Would it not have been a better business marketing model for them to have different color labels so that buyers could much more easily recognize the true high grade copies of books relative to their publishing time period, as opposed to having the masses read the various label grades and from there then try to independenty determine if the book had true collectible value or not? Especially when the uni-color unrestored label could have resulted in you mistakenly over paying for a book by thinking on your own (perish the thought ) that it was in uber HG condition, when in fact it is actually below the collectively acceptable HG threshold level for that particular time period. A multi-color label system for unrestored books based upon condition threshold levels would certainly help to prevent collectors from making this same mistake.

Well, as we all know here, the book was purchased in the end by the 2 architects behind the Impossible Collection (i.e. Fishler & Vinnie) who compiled the collection on behalf of Ayman Hariri, the son of the former Lebanese prime minister. I guess when you are a wealthy billionaire, you can afford to have both of the highest graded copies of Action 1 in your collection, along with so many other primo books that were unveiled as part of his collection back in 2016. Does anybody remember if he already has a copy of Marvel 1 in his collection or will he possibly be going after this particular copy here, even though the common belief was that he was done with collecting by the time his public exhibition took place?

From a strict visual appearance point of view, I am surprsied there is only a miniscule difference in grade of only 0.2 between that 'Tec 73 and this 'Tec 38: From a purely condition point of view, the visual difference between the 2 books would appear to be much more significantly different than what the assigned grades would otherwise suggest. Then again, that's just my own personal point of view as I am certainly not a professional grader in any sense of the word.

Nah, these are so common that they seem to show up all the time in every single auction. To each, their own................though personally, I would much rather prefer the racier GA covers like this one here: or from a relative rarity point of view with only 5 in the CGC census population report, the highest graded copy by a wide margin of book like this one here from way back in 1938:

As far as I can remember, they were both pretty much in the same HG condition.

Being a long-term collector, of course I would still have them. Unfortunately, I left them all at my sister's place and when I went to check on them about 15 years ago, I noticed that one of the X-Men 94 along with the Giant Size X-Men 1 was no longer there. Haven't done a thorough check to see if I simply misplaced them, but I figure they were probably stolen by my nephew to fund his crazed card collecting/action figure collecting phase at the time. Not really that big a big deal though since I figured that's the cost of free storage and the fact that those 2 books are easily obtainable as long as you are willing to spend a bit of money for them. Now, if it had been an irreplaceable GA Centaur book with only 2 or 3 copies in the CGC census, that would have been a completely different story then. At least it gave me the opportunity to store the remaining X-Men 94 in a better bag with an actual backing board since I figure it's probably the only one out of my entire run of X-Men 94 -150 that would be worthwhile slabbing in the end. I was actually surprised that all of the books were still pretty much newsstand quality high grade with vibrant colors even though they had been residing in the same old poly bags for all those decades.

Too bad you wasn't able to consummate the deal on the Suspense 8 as that was definitely the right call between the 2 books from my own personal point of view. Well, although we haven't crossed the finish line yet, it would appear that the marketplace might disagree with our personal preference for Suspense 8 over Mask 1. The CGC 5.5 graded copy of Mask 1 is already approaching 5-figures at $9,600 while the CGC 7.0 of Suspense 8 is at $6,300 and the equivalent CGC 5.5 graded copy is at only a piddly $3,720 in comparison. Looks like you just might have lucked into the right choice with your copy of Mask #1.

Ok, all kidding aside and on a more serious note.................anybody here have any idea where the Allentown Copy of Marvel 1 would stack up against this Windy City Copy? Especially since the Allentown Copy was graded as a VF/NM copy (with a small tear) by Payette at the time and we all know his reputation as being a very tough and strict grader.

It might not be the third most valuable, but if it sells for what it is apparently going to sell for it could be the second most expensive. A question here since the both of you are dealers, and as such, should have a much better handle on the marketplace. Any idea if there is another pedigree copy or any copy for that matter of Marvel Comics 1 that might grade higher than this CGC 8.5 9.0 9.4 9.6 graded copy? Oh........ My bad as I must have been looking too far ahead. I meant a 9.6 9.4 graded copy.

Yes, definitely a blast from the past and also an indication of how the demand for so-called hot books can change over the years. Still clearly remember that Spidey 121/122 and Avengers 93 (big squarebound Neal Adams issue ) along with Conan 3 were definitely the hot BA books at that time as evident from the above price list, which they clearly are not anymore as they have drifted relatively far down the in-demand BA hot list as compared to nowadays. So much so, that I remembered having to decide between a HG copy of Conan 3 and a HG copy of FF 11 at a local convention back in the latter part of the 70's because they were both going for the same relatively high price. Being the dummy that I was and wanting to complete my Smith run of Conan's and who really even cared about the Impossible Man, I decided to go for the Conan 3 over the FF 11. The only saving grace at that particular convention was that I had paid a whole dollar for a minty fresh looking copy of X-Men 94 from a dealer without doing my due diligence before spotting an equally nice copy for only a a quarter (i.e. or full cover price for a used book ) on my way out the door. Needless to say, this totally me right off, but after giving it some careful thought decided that I better double down on the book in order to lower my average cost for the book in order to hopefully break even one day.

Agreed. The masses are generally reactive to their surroundings and adapt to whatever is provided to them. Had they been forced to differentiate between blue label unrestored and blue label restored, they'd not only learn to read the labels, they'd be forced to learn to understand resto better. People need to be motivated to learn new things and when you dumb stuff down you remove the motivation. +1 Yes indeed, as "forced" education of the collector base with respect to the various types and extent of restoration would have served both the hobby and marketplace well, as opposed to implementing a system which simply dumbed it down to blue and purple.

Your post is all well and good but the reality is that most buyers were slowly trained visually that blue meant unrestored. CBCS went blue with Restored books and having bought one when I didn't look close enough I wasn't happy. Don't assume the customer is smart enough to read what is on the label. I have customers look at me with two heads when I explain what restored means on a raw book when they want to buy it. I ask if they realize it is restored and they don't get it. Colors they get, explanations I might as well be speaking a foreign language. Bob; In total and complete 100% agreement with you here since the multi-color label differentiation system is what CGC went with from the start. My point was based on the premise of what might have happened if they had gone with a uni-color label system in conjunction with a 10-point Restoration Rating system right from the get go. So for example, let's look at it another way. Do you think prices would be pretty much the same today if CGC had expanded their multi-color label system right from the get go to take into account say so-called "investment quality" grades? How about if they had gone with a scarlet red label (i.e. SLOD ) for any books below a CGC 9.8 for MA books, below a CGC 9.6 for CA books, below a CGC 9.4 for BA books, below a CGC 9.2 for post-1965 SA books, below a CGC 9.0 for pre-1965 SA books, below a CGC 8.5 for Atom Age books, below a CGC 8.0 for post-1940 GA books, below a CGC 6.0 for pre-1940 GA books? Any bets that if CGC had added in an additional layer of discriminatory and stigmitizing color labels based upon grades right from the get go, your customers would not be smart enough to understand the difference between the various grades to the same extent they do nowadays. You may as well be speaking to them in a completely foreign language when it comes to grading at that point, as they would simply look at the colors and avoid anything with a scarlet red label.

Definitely also my Top 3, although my order would be slightly different. It would be Action 1, 'Tec 27, and then Marvel 1. Surprisingly, although there's a lot of talk about Cap 1 in these kinds of threads here, personally I would take a Pep 22 over a Cap 1 if it's in grade.

I must be even old timier! (???). I know it will never be valued as highly, but I think historically Marvel 1 is far more significant than Tec 27. Batman was just another character added to DC's already established roster (albeit a major, major one). Still -- Batman brings nothing new to literature other than being in the comics... almost everything about him was lifted from a melding of pulp and movie sources. Marvel 1 initiates the beginning of tens of thousands of issues and thousands of Marvel characters... not just super-heroes, but western, humor, romance, crime, horror, etc. DC would have still been a successful company even had Batman never been invented. But Captain America, etc., etc., wouldn't even exist without Marvel #1. (Though I could delve even further into heresy territory and point out that one might make a case that the Ka-Zar #1 pulp from 1936 actually kicked off the Marvel hero universe....) Yes, I must be getting really old here as I still clearly remember when all 3 of these books used to swim in the same deep end of the pool. Marvel 1 was definitely in demand back then and I remembered one prominent comic book broker at the time saying he had no problem acquiring the Church DC keys from Chuck, but when it came to the Marvel 1, that was a completely different story. He apparently did managed to acquired it from Chuck in the end since that was his #1 want, but apparently only at a much heftier price tag. By then, he had already disposed of all of his Church DC keys in frustration after not being able to acquire the book (i.e. Marvel 1) which he really wanted.

Peter; I am actually surprised you are willing to go so high on the book so early since it's still got another 4 days left to go. Seriously though, I guess this pretty much answers the question as to whether it's going to pass the SF copy of Cap 1, the highest graded copy of AS 8, or whether it's going to cross the $million dollar mark or not.

Don't see how that would help in the end though as there are still far more raw copies of AF 15 out there, as compared to graded copies from what I've seen.

Too bad you wasn't able to consummate the deal on the Suspense 8 as that was definitely the right call between the 2 books from my own personal point of view.

I hope it was a great deal, but that the Mask is going anywhere once it arrives. The Suspense was also graded by CGC and definitely a great deal. It was graded FN+ universal and priced below the Mask. Well, if the Suspense 8 was in Fn+ condition or CGC 6.5 and priced lower than the Mask 1 in CGC 2.0, I personally would have gone after the Suspense 8 first. Especially since the Mask 1 in CGC 2.0 condition already has 33 other additional copies graded higher, while the Suspense 8 in CGC 6.5 condition has only 7 other additional copies graded higher. Personally, I also feel that the fire is already burning pretty hot on the Mask books while the fire on the Suspense 8 is just starting up. It will definitely be interesting to see what the CGC 7.0 graded copy of Suspense 8 goes for in the current Heritage Auctions. Probably has a good chance to hit 5-figures since it's already sitting at $6,300 with another 5 days to go. At the same time, you definitely can't go wrong with picking up a nice looking copy of Mask 1.