sfcityduck

You do realize that the Galadriel of RoP in the Second Age was a relatively youthful elf? She was only a quarter or so of the way into her long life. The equivalent of a twenty-something. You also realize that the LOTR took place many thousands of years later, when Galadriel was the oldest elf in Middle Earth, Elrond's mother-in-law, and grandmother of Elrond's children. And by the events of the LOTR, Galadriel was under the influence of a Ring of Power - something she does not possess yet in RoP. The story told here is not that of an ancient elf who largely is a bystander, but of a youthful elf who is a warrior (which is what JRR said she was in her youth). So the notion that an old person is disconnected from the person they were in their youth is not a valid criticism but a reflection of the arc a person experiences during their life. This criticism displays a lack of understanding of the relationship between the RoP story, which takes place in the Second Age, and the LOTR story which takes place at the very end of the Third Age. Finally, Galadriel is intended to be grating, impetuous, and, to beat a dead horse, impulsive in her relatively youthful warrior period. That you find her so tells us the writers have started her arc off appropriately. If she was acting like an ancient, Ring of Power enhanced, wise-woman at this point in her life it would be horribly false. After all, Galadriel was arguably a hothead who was a leader of the rebellion of the Nolder and their flight from Valinor (and who effectively lied about the kinslaying).

That's B.S., something you know if you have actually read the "source material" and understand what that material truly is as I do as a lifelong Tolkien fan. In addition, that attack is B.S. given that the same folks are lauding the LOTR movies. Here's why: First, the LOTR movies took massive creative license from the books. And they did so in a way which repeatedly robbed Frodo and the other Hobbits of their heroic moments. Examples: * Cutting the entire Tom Bombadil episode from the front of the story; * Giving Arwen a massively enhanced role at the expense of Frodo's most heroic moment in the first book; and * Cutting the "Scouring of the Shire" from the end of the story, which arguably ruined the character arcs of Merry, Pippen, and Sam by denying them the ending that JRR always intended. These very major material changes to the movie that impacted the story arcs and the extent of the heroism of the hobbits far far more than anything the Rings of Power has done to its source material. But it still was a good movie in my view despite that lack of fidelity. So too in the eyes of many critics of the Rings of Power. Begging the question: Why the hypocrisy!?! Second, the "source material" for the Rings of Power is not "canon" in any sense of the word! The Silmarillion was constructed by JRR's son Christopher and a student of his at Oxford, the gifted author Guy Gavriel Kay, after JRR had died. Kay had this to say about the experience of working on the Silmarillion: The Silmarillion and the other "source material" of the Rings of Power are nothing more than piles of contradictory unfinished tales, rejected false starts, notes, and ideas scribbled on scraps of paper. Put simply: There is no "canon" because the material on which Rings of Power is based was all "published" after JRR died - sometimes long after - from materials that largely were never intended to be published and which never were put by JRR into a final publishable form. And the writers of the Rings of Power are doing a very good job. They are filling in gaps that JRR offered virtually no details on. Example: * Galadriel's youth as a warrior is the subject of one published line by JRR. He mentioned she was a warrior and he never filled that in. Rings of Power breathes life into Galadriel's story by showing us what Galadriel was like when she was only a quarter or so into her very long life (equivalent of early to mid-twenties) long before she was shown in the LOTR near the end of her time on Middle Earth as an ancient grandmother (and also mother-in-law to Elrond). It is very welcome to see the ancient and wise bearer of a ring of power as a youthful, strong, heroic, and fiery warrior who has not yet obtained the benefit of that ring. * The Fall of Numenor is just the sketchiest of details about the Island and its politics - this story breathes life into those dry tidbits by constructing a vision of the Island that is consistent with Tolkien's vision but embellishes the story with a wealth of plausible details consistent with the spirit of the LOTR; * Gandalf's arrival in Middle Earth is alluded to with a reference that basically says no one knows what the Istari were up to for years after their arrival (there is speculation that they were "in the East"). RoP fills that gap by providing an origin story for Gandalf's close relationship with hobbit-kind (a relationship that the Hobbit and the LOTR implies existed for untold years). This is not a contradiction, it is a completion of an unfinished idea with massive gaps that needed embellishment. They are also, I think, giving us background on certain bearers of the Rings of Power, including the Nine whose stories are largely untold at all. They are filling gaps and doing so in a way that aligns with Tolkiens values. Third, the only material that might be considered "canon," if that's even a thing with JRR (which I think it clearly is not as he was a constant reviser of his stories), is the Appendixes of the Return of the King. But that material is sketchy and incomplete at best. Appendix A has 5.5 pages on the Numenorean Kings of which only 2.5 pages cover the story at issue in the Rings of Power. It is so sketchy it is very hard to contradict except as to dates. Appendix B similarly has less than three pages on the Second Age, the time period of RoP, and that too is nothing more than the barest sketch of a "timeline." Yes, it appears that RoP will compress the timeline, but that is hardly a major or material point in an adaptation. The compression of the timeline serves to make the story more accessible without doing violence to JRR's vision in any meaningful way. The spirit of his vision shines through still in RoP. . So the "purity trolls" argument that RoP deviates from the "official history" more than LOTR is total B.S. There is no "official history" or "canon," just ideas, sketches really, that were only "published" as unfinished tales after JRR's death with modification by his son and others. And now others are now free to pick up and attempt to flesh out those sketches.

Wow. Looking at reviews on Amazon. Pretty sad. This is what I see: * Many negative reviews by folks who clearly have not viewed the first four episodes. * Many negative reviews with a single dumb line like "Not faithful to Tolkien!" * Many negative reviews by people who admit their original review as taken down due to inappropriate content (likely racist). * Many negative reviews by people who clearly are just on "team GoT" and want to make a comparison. The clear conclusion is that Amazon is being spammed with negative reviews from a probable combo of bots, GoT fanboys, and racists. Sad to see. (As an aside and full disclosure: I'm a huge fantasy fan. GoT is the first and only fantasy series that I started and gave up on. I did so because it was clear that the Author had lost the thread of his plot only a few books in (and I'm a guy who made it through Wheel of Time including the epic one day of story book!). My decision was vindicated when the author essentially abandoned the book series - apparently having lost all inspiration in his original story. To me, it is telling that media reports reflect that "Should Martin die before finishing the A Song of Ice and Fire series, former collaborators have said that they will not conclude the series for him." Maybe that's a good thing, again based on the weak wrap up of the Wheel of Time (where at least the author, who loved his story and put out books like clockwork, was slow to die and talked plot with the subpar author who tried to wrap up the series). But the quote also suggests that Martin's "former collaborators" don't think the story is worth wrapping up as a book. As for the tv show, I never really it gave it a chance based on the low quality of the "source material" and I'm glad because my son, who was a fanatic, felt the final episode was one of the worst endings possible (as apparently so did the cast), so I'm glad I skipped it. BUT I would never dis the tv series on Amazon due to some sort of "loyalty" JJR Tolkien - that would be crazy. What I see on Amazon from GoT fanboys is crazy.)

I really would like several of the comics that are in consistently interesting gaps on that list!

Anyone else watching this? It is frigging amazingly awesome!

My guess is that there probably is when you talk GA and SA keys. Probably somewhere in Virginia.

Heroes is Alan Bahr - also associated with Okajaima pedigree.

For me, that's the only reason to get a signed book. To meet the creator and memorialize the event. (I wish I'd have met Stan and if I had it would have been my Marvel Age I bought back when it came out that I'd have got signed). The signature itself adds no value to me and may ruin the book if placed on the cover. My only exception is when the signature was put on the book by the creator as a mark of ownership - like with some interior signatures by Carl Barks that are intended to denote his ownership of the book and in that case you're buying the association with the creator not the sig. Of course, what is likely the most desirable comic in the world has an unobtrusive signature on the top of the cover - but it is by the OO not a creator, and for me that may well add value just because in some ways certain OOs are just as important to a comic fan like me as the creators. I can think of one comic I bought solely because of the sig - it was an old 1960s Avengers being sold out of NY and it had a stamp inside with the original owner of the books name - he was my old local comic book store owner. He'd had the book as a kid and sold it. Over the past 50 years or so it had traveled from Oregon to NY and was in great shape. It finally ended up back with me - a guy who'd known the OO. I thought that was cool. Much rarer experience than getting a Stan Lee.

I agree. There are too many advantages to Heritage if they just consign the books. They CGC/Heritage Heritage not only makes money on the buyers and sellers premiums without risking any of their its own working capital, but they CGC also gets to make money off of the pressing, grading and encapsulation at rates charged to the selling family (not just an offsetting cost for them Heritage).

I love stories about the collectors in the 60s and 70s. One of the most interesting stories I read about on this site was about a collector who was so OCD that even though he had early access to Mile High's from Chuck (and was buying some), he was also rejecting Mile High's for not being up to his personal high grade standard. Makes me wonder what his collection looked like.

My recollection is you posted in the past that your Uncle (I think) has at least one Action 1 he bought a long time ago. Or am I getting that wrong?

My memory is that Kareem had a great collection but it was destroyed in a fire. Any remember?

For your first question, longtime GA dealers and collectors who post on this site (e.g. Bedrock, Robotman, etc.) have great insights because they have experiences, connections, and memories/notes that many of us lack. Me, I just have some personal anecdotes and a memory for what others wiser people have said on this site. For your second question, the books you need to buy are the Photo Journal Guide to Comic Books vols. 1 and 2 by Ernst Gerber. You can find them on eBay. They are a great resource for any GA collector. There are Marvel Books also, but I don't see the need for those.

Episode 4 was strong. I'm a fan! I believe this story is not only about the origin of the rings, but also the story of select ring bearers - both good and bad. The three elven rings originally went to Gil-Galad (two of them) and on his death to Elrond and Cirdan (and Cirdan gave his to Gandalf) and Galadriel (the third). Seven to the Dwarf Kings including Durin. Nine to men and my guess is we may have met two of them already. And the one ring went to Sauron who I believe we've now met (and on his death to Isildur).

My guess is that even with the most valuable books in existence, the ones that are so valuable that there is a strong incentive to encapsulate (for insurance purposes and preservation) even if you are not intending to sell them immediately, the number is well less than half. Good examples: * Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles 1. The print run was 3,000 copies. Prices are sky high. Still, there are only 1135 copies that have been graded. That's about 37%. And that book was probably largely bought by and is owned by a cohort who are more likely to encapsulate than GA collectors. * Action 1. The estimates are less than 20% have been slabbed. For more common comics, we're talking much lower percentages: * Four Color 263. A desirable Barks' Donald/Scrooge comic (two major stories and all Barks). But only 55 copies on the census (less than Action 1) despite massive circulation at the time it came out. There are 52 copies on eBay (just three copies short of the total encapsulated population). I'd estimate that the percentage encapsulated might be as low as less than 2% (e.g. 2.500+ copies survive) - maybe below 1%. Many Barks Duck comics were very well loved and preserved by their owners, but mostly in low "reading copy" grades. They are the opposite of rare or scarce. But most of those that survive are not viewed as warranting encapsulation by their owners or dealers (only 10 copies below 5.0 have ever been encapsulated and none below 3.0).

To me, this thread graphically illustrates why the census is not necessarily an indicator of rarity for books. For a lot of GA books folks just don't want to pay money to encapsulate them because it is not worth it. The irony of this thread is that a lot of people are showing pics of raw comics that they don't intend to encapsulate. In contrast, you've got pedigrees that were likely encapsulated because they are pedigrees and the owner wanted to preserve the provenance. But, for example, there are five Tarzan 76s on eBay for prices that just don't warrant encapsulation (1 is in the $60 range, the others are less than $20). Is Tarzan 76 rare or scarce? I don't think so. It is unlikely to be encapsulated? Yes ... unless there's a good reason like it is an extremely high grade or to preserve provenance (and yours is both).

I knew a collector (not a dealer) in Eugene who was very proud of his complete high grade Marvel collection back in the early 1980s. He had moved his focus on to Atlas. He'd been collecting since at least the late 1960s. I don't know what happened to him and his collection as I moved out of Eugene by the end of the 80s and so did he. My now retired LCS owner is, I believe, still in still in touch with him as they were good friends. He's at the age where he might be thinking of selling the collection if he hasn't already. I think there's are a number of both nice OO and non-OO SA collections out there. Far too many organized collectors with access to adzines and fanzines and untapped comic sources (OOs, bookstores, etc.) around by the early 1960s and comic shops by the beginning of the 1970s for there not to be. Far too many stories by credible sources on this site about high grade SA collections. With prices and collectors aging out, I think the auction highlights of the future will include lots of high grade SA books. Heck, look at the non-pedigree books out of Truckee that hit Heritage recently - no less than four FF 1s (9.2 white (sold for $1.5M), 9.0 white ($420K), 8.5 white ($228K), and 7.5 white ($168K)) plus 9.4 whites of the following also 1962 books: FF 2, FF 3, Atom 1, and Aquaman 1. No one knew about the collection because the collector stopped collecting in the 1960s. I think that's probably just a brick in the wall of SA collections out there.

Yep. Placzek is old enough to have bought the full Marvel SA off the stands (and have double copies). But I think we all know of younger collectors who had no problem putting together full SA Marvel collections even if they started in the mid to later 60s and early 70s. For a long time the cost was not prohibitive. And the number of IH 181 and GSX 1s is probably staggering, with my guess being that even a small run book like TMNT 1 had 90 percent of the press run survive since they were sold straight to collectors. GA is where the real natural rarity is.

Personally, I think 7.5 is a great grade level to aim for. You can get very nice presenting comics, and you don't pay the huge premium that goes into effect when you get much higher. It's a sweet spot. White pages is a huge bonus too. I personally will accept ow-w and ow. I stay away from cream.

You'd hope not. But I can promise you I've seen some strangely high grades on GA books in the past year or so.

Worse things have happened. One of the California fires wiped out Charles Schulz's home, including irreplaceable original art and other items.

Not knowing your definition, I can't disagree. We all know about books in collections like DAs or the Verzyl family's that are locked up but quite well known. But I'm thinking about guys who were passionate and private collectors before pedigrees were even a thing. It's not like I'm connected and even I know of a raw Top 25 GA comic that would likely top the census if graded that has resided in the same collection since around 1971. It's been locked in a bank box since the 1980s. No one discusses that issue - it is not like DA's books. The owner never traveled in the high paying circles but that's not his best comic. He just collected comics back when the collecting was good and also back when collectors held their acquisitions like cards close to their chests. The comic was purchased at a time when the record price paid for a comic was around $330 (a Marvel 1 sold by Rogofsky in 1968). I don't believe he's the only guy like that. He's bit younger than BZ's age, and BZ was a relatively young collector in the 1960s. Older collectors from that time period are still around. Heck Bill Placzek recently popped up here and gave a good description of what could be done if you started collecting in the 1950s: Paints a picture of what may be out there amongst the old guys just sitting on collections.

Marty is definitely the only person on this Board with their name printed in a Golden Age comic (circa 1947)!

A new grail for me to find! Not Barks, but a cool reconceptualization. For a variety of reasons I feel a lot of love and nostalgia for FC 263. It was one of the first comics I read when my Dad gave me his childhood collection 40s-50s comics. The stories are excellent - among Barks' best. I grew up in the NW and felt an affinity for the Totem story. I am ever on the lookout for a high grade probably file copy of FC 263. Hard to find. Let me know if you find a decent copy of that Aussie take you want to unload. I'd love to have one.

Politics. Which we're not supposed to talk about on this site. But you can read this: The Reactionary Geeks Are Mad About 'Rings of Power' - The Atlantic. There are articles about this online.