artcollector9

hey Frank contact me at robpistella@mac. com and we can discuss. best Rob

Good points Gene. I am less critical of technique these days. Looking at the art as the cover of a 10 cent comic, I see wonder! I suppose if I were spending $100-500K on a piece of art I'd be more critical? I've spent that this year and I was buying other things than technique. I rarely buy comic art for illustrative perfection... White out doesn't bother me. This is production art. I go for overall impact. As I said, a critical analysis of Jack Kirby's anatomy would suggest he wasn't very good. The reality is that he was the master. I have redefined what makes great comic art in my mind these last few years. I think I look at art more at a distance now, and not so close up. I agree that FF covers are better known and appeal to Boomers, not younger collectors. Clearly the possibly half million dollar price tag will limit buyers to those who can afford such nostalgic luxury, usually older guys. So the lack of appeal or importance to a 26 year old is of no consequence to the seller, at least!

The referenced critique of the Frazetta Famous Funnies covers misses the point of our hobby entirely-- his comments were laughable really (i.e. Wilma's muscles are too well defined in this one, etc.) HA!! Frazetta would often blur portions of the paintings he did to lead our eye to what is important. Is that a defect to the author, too? Frazetta is about animal energy more than precision, though he's often very precise. Frank's woman and men are often caricatures of real people, exaggerated for effect; It's like saying Jimmy Page played 4 wrong notes in his Stairway to Heaven solo on July12, 1977-- and missing the three hours of sheer energy and talent and bravado that surrounded them...in context it works. Page isn't Bach and Frazetta isn't DaVinci. It's rock and roll and comic covers. Besides, who wants to pick apart Kirby's anatomy, or Millers? I hate this type of conversation. The Frazetta covers are so F*****g cool I'd be thrilled to own any of them... Wilma's musculature and all!! Whoever buys this cover will be very fortunate indeed... the are all among the very best dynamic covers in our hobby I think.

kind of surprised or confused about some of the negative comments on the Frazetta piece re: new logo? The piece has been conserved and the logo and attending type gives the art the proper context (i.e. it's a comic book cover not just a fine illustration). Weakest? On the contrary, It's close up and beautiful figures make it one of the best of the run- (not that any of them are a dog!) This is the top of the hobby. Frazetta is the finest illustrator of the second half of the 20th century ...hes in the same league as Parrish and Rockwell... Frazetta did precious little comic work and these covers are among the finest art ever created in comics, period. The Sci-Fic genre is perfect for Frank and the love he had for it shows. I think this is 500K or so...I'd rather have this at $600K than Death Dealer 5 for $1.8 Mil!

who cares what someone else says. DO what you like. I think having the art in hand is the earliest-- I've had art lost in the mail so I wait until I'm looking at the art! I've also had guys back out of deals even after we both say done deal. Again I'd wait until in hand, but that's me. Anytime you like, once your deal is completed is fine.

Actually I just checked, it's still on Albert's site, and it was $55K. http://www.albertmoy.com/gallerypiece.asp?Piece=14416

good point. I think we are getting there. There are more and more museum shows. Lucas' museum of narrative art is going to highlight comic art as a bone fide narrative medium. Rock music has much the same uphill battle, which it's winning. The release of the Beatles White Album this weekend has been met with much interesting scholarship and reconsideration of the record that at one time was only a 'pop' record by a 'pop' group. For example there was a three day symposium at Monmouth University on the importance of the record in a historical and sociological context! I think the sale of Master Race is great for the hobby and to your point- to increase the mainstream acceptance of comic art as a bode fide medium of artistic expression and in fact excellence. I think this is true (that comics are a great art form) so I am bullish on comic art as an investment as well.

I'm not so concerned about younger collectors coming in. Who is going to buy a $75,000 Ditko Spider Man page? Not a young collector. I think the comic art market has already fractured into many sub groups like many collectible hobbies do. The collector who buys $150 sketches and pages has nothing to do with the collector who buys and sells $10,000-$100,000 pieces. If today's $500K Kirby FF cover is going to sell in 10 years, it's not going to a young collector. I think that art is much more an investment vehicle today than it was 50 years ago (except for the very rich who always bought art, along with real estate and stocks and bonds). I think if a 34 year old successful guy wants to part $250,000 in an investment for several years, comic art is so much more appealing than more traditional types of art (old master drawings, still lifes, etc). I don't think the collector who buys a page from Hulk 5 today bought the comic off the stand. I don't think it's a nostalgia purchase. I think he sees that the source material for the Marvel universe is rare, interesting, cool, and desirable. I think he recognizes that it is a 'good investment' with wide public recognition and with 'legs'. In 75 years Disney will insure that people will know who the Hulk is, just like they know who Mickey Mouse is. There's no doubt in my mind that the $35,000 Hulk 5 page today is going to be desirable, collectable and more valuable in the next 50 years. It's just a matter of how much.

I don't subscribe to the 'buy what you like and even if the value goes down to zero you are ok' philosophy. Once art got over $1000 a page, it is an investment. It's not just fun drawings on paper-hobby purchase, not for me at least. It's money that belongs to my family in the end and I need to be careful with it. I do not see a doomsday scenario of boomers aging out and dumping collections. I think people collect differently now, than they did 20 and 30 years ago. I think 25 years ago with cheap art prevalent collectors still spent all their disposable income on comic art, they just got so much more for their money-- so a guy who loved Kirby might have 10-15 Kirby pages. Now with prices so high, the collection who wants Kirby gets 1-2. I also think a lot more people collect comics and comic art today, than 25 years ago. It's not that ALL comics and comic art will always go up-- market taste and other factors including purchase price etc will have a large bearing on whether one profits or loses when he sells. But I think in the next 20 years, top tier comic art (and we could discuss how to define that) will continue to rise to heights unthought of today. Just as Warhol and other art is now $50-100 Mil (and DaVinci hit $500 mil!) a great, vintage Kirby cover for $2-3 mil seems plausible, right, and inevitable.

Join us at the Society of Illustrators in NYC at 128 E 63Rd St., for our Comic Con Happy Hour Celebration on Friday, October 5th at 6:30pm to view our three exhibits: The Art of The Avengers and Other Superheroes, Tales From the Crypt: The Revolutionary Art of MAD and EC Comics, and Funny Ladies at The New Yorker: Cartoonists Then and Now. Tickets $35 ticket includes admission to the museum, plus 1 drink ticket and an exhibition catalog. $50 ticket includes all of the above, plus deluxe version of the catalog with a signed Angelo Torres print. https://www.societyillustrators.org/events/comic-con-happy-hour-celebration

thanks Glen!

Special EventComic Con Happy Hour CelebrationOctober 05, 2018 | 6:30 pm Join us for our Comic Con Happy Hour Celebration on Friday, October 5th at 6:30pm to view our three exhibits: The Art of The Avengers and Other Superheroes, Tales From the Crypt: The Revolutionary Art of MAD and EC Comics! Tickets $35 ticket includes admission to the museum, plus 1 drink ticket and an exhibition catalog. $50 ticket includes all of the above, plus deluxe version of the catalog with a signed Angelo Torres print. https://www.societyillustrators.org/events/comic-con-happy-hour-celebration

FAKE.

I think Gene is correct that it is worth 215K at least. So I'm going to guess $385-425K for this-- because I believe that these special pieces tend to do 2X value.

I don't mind showing my art. I don't think it 'hurts' it. In fact, people will sometimes say, 'hey I've looked at the piece for years-- I'd like to make an offer on it!' People want what they see. They can't do that if they can't see it! The fresh to market strategy might be good for B+ or A pieces new to market, and help the seller get an A+ price based on a temporary immediacy of the buyer having to have this previously unseen piece-- That strategy doesn't work all the time as we can see on CAF many of those previously unseen pieces 'sprung' on us for sale (at a higher than normal price) still available! For regular art, I think showing them is just fine.

pretty clear giveaway, this caveat: So, as it states in Ebay's rules, these are being sold as is, as found, as "in the manner of the artist" or "school of the artist".

Hey! Because, if he said he'd put it for $425,000 and gave his reasons, and then attempted to take it down at heritage, he might have more competition. Instead, he won't give any inkling as to what he'd sell it for, so that he might lessen potential competition.

I agree with you, and it is a perfect example of eschewing craft asa reason for collecting, and replacing it with something else. It looks like cereal box art. Obviously the purchaser was buying something else than craft. Nostalgia

That's a very astute point. T0 some degree the collectors of the Studio were collecting nostalgia, as well as craft. Will 'nostalgia' for Marvel and DC characters be sustained since new generations are making those characters their own? I think it will.

Excellent topic Gene. You and I have had this conversation in private. Happy to make some public comments as well. Nostalgia is outpacing craft tremendously. In the old days, for example, collectors tended to buy artists first and image second. If I told a collector I had a Frazetta drawing for sale as I pulled it out of my portfolio, if it was priced right, it would be sold. People bought on the name. Today, I see the market much more image driven and as most of the old timers have died, the so called second tier artists have gained ground on A titles (i.e. Ayers Spider-Man page now costs a respectable sum). These days the Studio artists, whom I love and admire, are losing ground, except on the works that are mainstream (i.e. Swamp Thing or BWS Wolverine). At one time I could sell a Romantic styled drawing by Jones or Kaluta or BWS pretty easily. Not so much today. I think partly it is prices. When things were cheap, collectors could collect wide, and we wanted it all. Today, with each piece costing so much, decisions have to be made- so that while most collectors can admire a $50,000early Hal Foster Tarzan, few (under 50?) are willing to pull the trigger, optioning instead for a DKR or Kirby/Sinnott twice up page. Tastes change and tastes are moving away from pretty, ornate, decorative art. The illustrative art of yesterday is giving way to more modern looking art. Yes there are plenty of exceptions-- Herriman's KK for one, continues to look timeless and modern even though it was crafted 80 years ago. I remember when collectors would discuss the craft of the art associated with a page-- Wood, Williamson, Frazetta, The Studio, that type of stuff. I think there are certainly artists that create beautiful and valuable art today, i.e. Williams and Lee. But the monetary value, if not the aesthetic value, drops off tremendously once the art is not mainstream known hero art. Look at Ditko-- Spider Man or Dr Strange-- more valuable than gold. His Charlton art? tremendous drop off. Recent art? Unsellable. That wasn't so with artists that were bought on craft, so much. That's changed today. also- I can't afford to buy art just for the heck of it-- the money I spend has to be invested wisely so that I can give this money back to my family one day. Dealers and auction houses are selling us investments-- let there be no question about that. Once we go above $500, it's an investment. It's interesting to note that as far as investment goes, art that has beautiful craft will be investment worthy-- if it is of a super hero. A Wally Wood Daredevil page has more upside today than one of his Sci Fi pages. The opposite was true years ago, I think.

this has happened to me. I understand it now. However it seems that's a fault in the system-- in your example, the other bidder's bid of 2600 should also have been outbid on behalf of my 2600, and he should have been prompted to go to 2800 (not forcing ME instead to go to 2800)?

I think there could have been-- let's say pre auction, I place a bid for $5,000 on this lot. At auction time it sits at 2K with me the high bidder. Every time someone bids, the house bis up one increment on my behalf and the other party is outbid, until the other bidder exceeds 5K.

Heritage would say there was a previous bid at the same amount, which takes precedence?

Here's a nice piece that NBC did on our comic art show: https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Marvel-Comic-Book-Art-on-Display-at-the-Society-of-Illustrators-Super-New-Exhibit-488434191.html?fsb Nice video of a lot of art, and several comic art dealer and collector interviews, too!