Gatsby77

Anyone weigh in on the first mass-speculated books by collectors? From what I've read, everyone bought heavy multiples of Conan # 1. But before that, I've read that collectors also bought heavy multiples of the 1968 Marvel expansion books (Iron Man 1, Captain Marvel 1, Captain America 100, Submariner 1, Nick Fury 1, Hulk 102, etc.). Curious if there were earlier books that point to a larger collector base. I find it hard to believe there were just a few thousand collectors nationwide when the Batman TV show was on every week beginning in 1966.

Mysterio - and the Chamelon.

Not as a character. As of this writing, Venom's appeared in 1,955 comics. Deadpool's appeared in more than 2,400, despite having been around for four fewer years. Further -- as some folks were debating a few pages back, Deadpool's interacted with the entire Marvel Universe, whereas (to-date) Venom is still primarily just a Spider-Man antagonist. Venom's got a long way to go to reach Doctor Doom/Thanos levels of Marvel Universe significance, whereas Deadpool's already there. And yeah - last month Venom # 4 outsold each of Deadpool's four separate solo books, but there you go -- Deadpool's supporting two titles bi-weekly these days; Venom just started a new series (primarily to tie into the movie).

And you'd be wrong. Harley Quinn is far more familiar to the general public than Venom because a whole generation of now 35-45 year-old boys grew up on the Batman Adventures cartoon and she has been a staple costume at comic (and even anime) conventions for a decade now. Prior to the Wonder Woman movie last summer she was the most popular female comics character at shows. Plus, the Suicide Squad movie came and went -- with Margot Robbie portraying her. Due to their movies, both Deadpool and HQ are far more recognized by the general public than Venom... For now...if the Venom movie does well and six years from now there are three of them, that could change.

Dang - Jay. That's a lot of words. I think you severely overestimate the amount of diehard ASM completists out there. I think your ASM 667 variant has a cool cover, but I'm willing to wait 20 more years to see how it does. I'd rather have a Superman Bradman and it's growth has been essentially flat (or negative, depending on the grade) over the last 7 years - despite having just 38 (of ~102) copies on the census and being (literally) harder to find in absolute terms than any issue of Superman # 1-102.

Greg - I have a bit of an issue with you're thread premise because you start with (arguably) two of the hottest books in the hobby -- Hulk 181 and ASM 300. As a previous poster noted, "Hard to believe that Wolverine will ever become hotter than he is today." So...this may be the apex of Hulk 181 pricing (or, more realistically, price acceleration). Even moreso with ASM 300. It was just 3 years ago when the Copper Age section had a thread on "best investment" - ASM 300, Batman Adventures 12 or NM 98. And if you read through that thread, NM 98 won (by a landslide) due to the impending movie news. Today, we're less than 90 days out from a Venom movie and the book is hotter than it's been since the day after the we got the first glimpse of Venom in the last two seconds of the the trailer for Spider-Man 3. The point? I'm not disputing the long-term investment value of the top 10-20 comic keys from each era -- but we've seen the hobby shift over the last decade to a ridiculous emphasis on first appearances that is 90% driven by movie speculation. I still want to know what will drive key comic appreciation once the major studios aren't pumping out 6-8 comic films per year. - Is All Star Western 10 still a decent key? Is there _anything_ that will drive its value now that the turd of a movie is nearly 10 years old and his appearances on TV in Legends of Tomorrow have come and gone? - What about Iron Fist 14? He's appeared in at least two movies already and I don't even know if he's still alive in the comics continuity? These are just two examples of books that have cooled immensely since they've already had their movie appearances. The same could (potentially) said of books like Hulk 181, New Mutants 98 and ASM 300 or Walking Dead 1 in a decade. Hell, even Vengeance of Bane has dropped off a clip since he's appeared in two movies and is likely done. The hobby at this point is mad fickle based on movie speculation -- as a fan I love it, but I don't see the fundamentals for continued growth once civilian audiences tire of superhero films.

Another thing to mention here: to the public at large, it doesn't matter if Venom was/is a major character. If the movie does well (and spawns a sequel or two) boom -- he will become one in the eyes of the public. Granted - not that that happened with Sabretooth's two movie appearances -- or Ghost Rider's, but I think it's far more likely that Venom will see solid success than instantly fade a la Jonah Hex or Ghost Rider. So far, Box Office tracking has it at grossing at least $40 million its opening weekend, but at least one source says it could hit $85 million, which would be an all-time record for an October release.

It's funny. I was primarily reading Spider-Man from 1989 through 1993. And at the time it seemed Venom had replaced both Green Goblin and (my favorite) Hobgoblin as Spidey's # 1 nemesis. And yeah - for a brief time in 1992-94 he seemed nearly on par with Punisher, Ghost Rider, and Wolverine for Marvel Universe anit-hero staus (i.e., appearing in crossovers literally every month). For me, a huge catalyst for this impression was his run in Marvel Comics Presents -- which seems like it went from "Wolverine & friends" to "Wolverine, Venom & friends" for a time. For me, "peak Venom" (in terms of over-exposure) was when he appeared (totally gratuitously) in Daredevil's "Fall from Grace" storyline. And, while I bought a few sets of Lethal Protector, I never actually read beyond issue # 3, nor the later minis or solo series. I couldn't even tell you if he appeared in Maximum Carnage because that series turned me off of symbiotes entirely. So not only am I unfamiliar with Riot, Scream and the other symbiotes from Lethal Protector, I have no idea how the character has evolved over the past 20+ years. Is he still a core (top 3) Spidey villain? Is he still Eddie Brock -- or is he now Flash Thompson -- or someone else entirely? And critically -- is he a major Marvel villain or mostly still just a Spidey antagonist? No idea. I *like* him, because of his portrayal in Web of # 18, ASM 298-300, 315-317, 332-333, 346-347, 374-375, etc. but don't even know if he's still relevant today. Analogy -- around the same time period Sabretooth was the # 1 Wolvie villain and one of the hottest villains in comics. I have no idea if he's important, relevant or even alive/active in current continuity. But he's frozen in time in my mind as significant because he was popular in 1991-1993, when I was actively collecting.

I have no more problem with artist sketches than I do with signatures on books. And the outrage over Neal potentially defacing these books is hilarious -- as RMA said, they're not rare. Given that Neal charges for photographs and signatures, let alone sketches, I have no problem with a collector seeing a sketch by him as a value-add -- for instance, I sure wish I'd gotten an Al Williamson or John Romita sketch when I had the chance. My pet peeve is signature series on books that are already signed, like Tick Special Edition 1-2. That's just...dumb. An Edlund sketch on them. however?

Anyone who claims Hollywood is "unoriginal" just isn't looking in the right places. Other recent classics include: Get Out -- a truly original -- and well-done -- horror film. Justly awarded the Oscar for Best Screenplay. Arrival -- Amazingly well-done sci-fi, and Amy Adams was robbed for Best Actress -- she inexplicably wasn't even nominated. Sicario -- same genre as Traffic 15 years ago but smaller in scope and much more compelling. Hell or High Water -- a true modern-day western. Extraordinary, and the first film that convinced me Chris Pine has some true acting chops. Next up -- I'm _really_ looking forward to the Matthew McConaughey / Anne Hathaway psychological thriller Serenity.

It's funny -- one of my favorite parts of the otherwise-horrible Ghost Rider movie was when Sam Elliot revealed himself to be the Golden Age Ghost Rider, and they rode off together (to "Riders on the Storm," no less) in a direct homage to Ghost Rider # 50.

But you know what? I like a few of the DC replacements better. Hal Jordan is far better than Alan Scott -- and Guy Gardner was the only reason to read Justice League in the late '80s. Likewise, Barry Allen beats Jay Garrick in my book.

Agreed. Saw it last night -- Not my favorite of the series (that's still M:I III), but easily a close second. If you're on the fence - go see it. Written/directed by Chris McQuarrie, who doesn't write bad movies (i.e., The Usual Suspects, Way of the Gun, Jack Reacher, Edge of Tomorrow).

Because I'm more excited for this than I am for Venom:

I don't think it matters - because MoviePass didn't affect grosses. With MoviePass, customers paid $20 per month, but the company reimbursed the theaters for the full price of the ticket. I think it will be the same with AMC -- with theaters counting number of tickets sold to arrive at box office value rather than pure grosses. Also - pure grosses are BS since only inflation-adjusted totals give a true benchmark. And how do you calculate inflation-adjusted totals? Number of tickets sold. Long-term, however, we *will* likely see downward pressure on film budgets (as we've already seen with actors' salaries). Today, an average Tom Cruise action thriller can be made for $80-$120 million, and he's *still* one of the biggest stars in the business.

I think Lena Headey was excellent in Dredd. And Peter Dinklage was a solid actor even before GoT (i.e., The Station Agent). More recently, he was excellent with his supporting role in Three Billboards.

I'm shocked and disappointed by this news. Was really looking forward to New Mutants, based on the trailer. It had a Shyamlan "Split" vibe. Never really understood why they greenlit Dark Phoenix, however -- as we literally saw them try (and fail) with that adaptation with Last Stand. I get the love for the storyline, but really? You're going to try to adapt it twice in 12 years? (Then again, how many times have we gotten a Spidey origin AF 15 now? Three times?)

I agree with you here. I don't think the Mile High Collection advanced the hobby nearly as much as say...Bob Overstreet did. For Chuck's inclusion, you'd have to argue that Golden Age comic collecting would not have been what it was in the 1980s (esp. early 80s) if the Mile High collection had ended up in the garbage. And I just don't think that's true. We still had the Wonder Woman and Incredible Hulk live action shows, Spider-Man, Spider-Man & His Amazing Friends; Super Friends; the Christopher Reeves Superman shows and (no doubt) Tim Burton would still have made Batman. Yes - Chuck's been a great comic book ambassador for 50 years, but his primary innovation was charging 3x Overstreet's for true NM books. That's it. It was Bob Overstreet who first really popularized the idea that comics were collectables rather than disposables.

Agreed. As a long-time Daredevil fan, I can tell you Daredevil vol. 2 # 32 is a top-5 most important book in his entire mythos. Why? He reveals his identity in court -- and thus to the world. And it sticks...for at least the next 60 issues. Fundamentally changes the character. And, I might add, is one of many reasons that the Bendis/Maleev run (at least # 16-80) is stronger than either of Miller's runs was in the '80s. But...nobody was reading Daredevil in 2002-2010, so the market doesn't care. And fanboys on this board -- most of whom are in their 40s -- weren't reading Daredevil during this period and don't even know this happened, let alone its signficance. So its a fools errand to try to convince folks that Daredevil # 16-87 (at least) is a better read than # 158-201. Ditto, that the Netflix show (seasons 1-2) owe as much (or more) to this run than they do to Miller's two runs at the book. Only folks who have read all of the Miller and Bendis and Brubaker runs could make that judgement, but I have, and it's true.

Yeah - no sympathy on this one. As has been mentioned, retcons have happened for forever - I'm sure the Mignola cover to Batman 428 would go for a mint. But why? Jason Todd didn't actually die in the issue, and Robin was replaced within two years. Even worse are when characters don't appear in the issue: Example: Hulk 359 (Wolverine's on the cover; not in the issue). Werewolf By Night # 37 -- this annoys me to no end. It's not Moon Knight's 3rd appearance because, despite being on the cover, he's not in the issue.

This. And yeah -- this is "Werewolf By Night # 32" syndrome -- where folks are betting that a) the Disney/Fox deal will go through; and somehow lead to b) a successful FF movie. Ya' know - fifth time's the charm!!

Agreed. Example - we all know Black Panther 2 is happening soon, but I wish they'd at least pretend he's still dead for the time being -- ditto that we know Homecoming 2 is coming.

I've spent more than $2k on a comic only three times. Showcase # 4, CGC 3.0 for $2,100 -- long before the show made the book explode. Sold it two years later to Gator at a profit, but not the 4-5x it goes for today. All-American # 19, CGC 5.0 for $2,700 -- later sold for an engagement ring. Fighting Yank # 10, CGC 4.0 for $2,150.

Yeah - but even with that it was _easily_ the best Spidey movie since Spider-Man 2. (As in, leagues better than Spider-Man 3, Amazing, or Amazing 2.)

I like Toby Kebbell. Fantastic Four wasn't his fault, and he was phenomenal in Black Mirror (think it was "The Entire History of You"). But even with the top-tier cast, I can't shake the feeling that audiences won't respond to Bloodshot's now-derivative premise (see the TV show "Jake 2.0" and last month's movie "Upgrade"). Granted, Upgrade was low-budget, but it's made a whopping $12 million at the box office.